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How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

germantechjobs.de

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Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#81

Post by dagw »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #74
sdevonoes wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that software developers in Europe are heavily underpaid (compared to what US developers) get, I think we are compensated just fine in terms of vacation and working time. In my experience, 30 vacation day per year IS the norm. And at most 40h/week of work (it's something in which European companies "are better" than US ones: they don't work as much as Americans).

Not true, 25 vacation days per year is the norm in Austria and most of Europe, anything above that and you're in a privileged position, and most dev contracts have statements where any potential overtime is covered by you salary and not paid extra. And overtime does happen especially during crunches for releases (yeah, i know management sucks but it sucks everywhere I looked in Austria). Maybe you can show me where I…

Maybe you can show me where I can find these 40h/week no-overtime with 30 days/year vacation jobs so I know where to move next.

That describes every job I've had in Sweden over last 6-7 years or so. But then again I've made a conscious effort to void some of the 'crunchier' industries (like game studios and certain startups), which admittedly does mean getting paid a bit less.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#82

Post by adrianN »

wink wrote: post #65
adrianN wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it might cost a bit less.

Prices have beeen going up steadily for the last 10-15 years. Maybe there was a single dip in 2008-2010.

Past performance of an asset is no guarantee for future performance.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#83

Post by [deleted] »

estaseuropano wrote: post #34
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but even 450k Euros for a house is very cheap for the current crazy market in Germany. At that price don't expect to be in a nice area or be close to any major city or good facilities.

Totally depends on the region..and public transport such as local trains tend to be good and most cities small enough for cycling to work or commuting in. Even hlHamburg or Munich is not like London or New York.

[deleted]

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#84

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

sdevonoes wrote: post #80
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, 25 vacation days per year is the norm in Austria and most of Europe, anything above that and you're in a privileged position, and most dev contracts have statements where any potential overtime is covered by you salary and not paid extra. And overtime does happen especially during crunches for releases (yeah, i know management sucks but it sucks everywhere I looked in Austria). Maybe you can show me where I…

Sorry, I don't know about Austria. But at least in my experience in Germany, France, and the Netherlands I always got around 28-30 days of vacation per year. Overtime is perhaps more about the company and oneself, but in my experience is something you decide to do it or not. If you do it companies pay for overtime. I never done overtime (because companies pay pennies for it :) )

>Overtime is perhaps more about the company and oneself

Well that was my point. There's no EU law that prevents you from having to do overtime.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#85

Post by mustafa_pasi »

lbrito wrote: post #14
sdevonoes wrote: post #8

> To sum up: if you are single and opt for "live cool and don't care about expenses" style, then an average developer salary will be enough (it might be harder if you have a family to feed). > On the other hand, if you choose to go the student-like route (living in Wohngemeinschaft and not eating out too much), you can easily manage with just 1.200-1.500 EUR per month, and save the majority of your salary. I know it…

I assume engineering positions are on the top bracket of salary distribution. If not even this is enough to pursue home ownership, what kind of people are able to afford a house? Honest question.

> I assume engineering positions are on the top bracket of salary distribution.

No, not really. Unlike in the US, other professions still make more to much more. Engineering pays same to slightly more. Tenured professors make more than most SWEs, but there are some SWEs who make more than that. Lawyers and notaries make much more. Doctors of course make much more. I bet architects make more as well but this one I have not checked. Any credentialed financial job makes at least as much. Managers in any industry will make more than any typical SWE (being a manager is how you typically break into the six figure range). But to answer your question, mortgages are affordable and most people rent.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#86

Post by catdog »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #71
carlmr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you can definitely earn more than 60k in Germany. I don't know about Berlin though. In Stuttgart, Frankfurt or Munich this would be too little to get a senior developer. Most of the other professions pay less. From the list you gave, and the people I know, I would assume the sorting is roughly: * physical therapists (can't go much lower in pay) * pilots (there are just way too many, except for those in old con…

> I mean you can definitely earn more than 60k in Germany. exactly. I made that as a Junior in my first full-time job in Munich in 2000 already. Then moved on to freelancing and for the next decade never invoiced less than EUR 12K/month (average was actually EUR ~16K). I did a lot of hours and paid a lot of tax but it also got me fast cars, holidays in Italy, Austria or Switzerland (just for the weekends) and a nanny…

Freelancers in Germany also have a problem which is called "Scheinselbstständigkeit". If you do too much work for only one client (there are no clear rules to follow) the public social security system might decide you are to be treated like an employee and your client suddenly has to pay pension insurance and health ensurance for the time you worked for them. Companies fear that because it's a huge chunk of money and to my knowledge this also contributed a lot to "Arbeitnehmerüberlassung" spreading so much into highly skilled positions.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#87

Post by erinnh »

sdevonoes wrote: post #63
dkyc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why's that? Saving 18k for 5 years would yield you 90k€, which would be an appropriate 20% down payment on the 450k€ house.

Let's do some simple (and probably wrong, but hey) maths: - House price: 450K euro - In Europe you usually need around 30% of the house in cash (20% for down payment and 10% for paperwork and the like). This means you need 135K euro saved. Saving 18K euro/year => you need to save money for 7 years - Now you get a mortage for the 70% of the 450K euro (315K euro). Now depending on how much you want to pay every month,…

Thats wrong. At least right now.

10% down payment is quite common currently in Germany for a house.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#88

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

adrianN wrote: post #82
wink wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prices have beeen going up steadily for the last 10-15 years. Maybe there was a single dip in 2008-2010.

Past performance of an asset is no guarantee for future performance.

I don't care about past performance, I'm only looking at the future and unless there will be a future building boom in the cities to increase supply(spoiler alert, it won't because a million reasons) and unless there will be a sharp drop in internal and external immigration to the cities with jobs, prices will keep rising.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#89

Post by aeyes »

the_only_law wrote: post #50

What’s the chance someone with experience, but no education could get a job in an EU country. I’ve always assumed that that’s off the table for people like myself.

The same as in other countries: Your biggest problem is going to be getting a work visa which is usually tied to higher education.

Re: How to find a job as Software Developer in Germany

#90

Post by Spooky23 »

lbrito wrote: post #14
sdevonoes wrote: post #8

> To sum up: if you are single and opt for "live cool and don't care about expenses" style, then an average developer salary will be enough (it might be harder if you have a family to feed). > On the other hand, if you choose to go the student-like route (living in Wohngemeinschaft and not eating out too much), you can easily manage with just 1.200-1.500 EUR per month, and save the majority of your salary. I know it…

I assume engineering positions are on the top bracket of salary distribution. If not even this is enough to pursue home ownership, what kind of people are able to afford a house? Honest question.

Engineering is always a boom/bust. Germany doesn't have local industries that have the need for the wacky salaries being paid in some verticals.

You might remember American Standard advertising toilets that we re-engineered for efficiency by aerospace engineers. There's a reason why late-90s aerospace engineers pivoted to toilet architecture. (Hint: Not a passion for the throne.)

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