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Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

ethereumcashflow.com

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Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#291

Post by kybernetikos »

ObserverNeutral wrote: post #161
lottin wrote: post #10

The fact that something is scarce doesn't make it a store of value. Scarce simply means is in short supply, but prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand. Moreover, if an asset is in fixed supply, then its price is determined entirely by the demand. This means such an asset will only be a store of value if the demand for the asset remains strong over a long period of time, whi…

> Scarce simply means is in short supply, but prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand You can't predict demand, nobody can. So all things being equal (demand being unpredictable) you are better off holding something which is in low supply. People are absulutely scared to death about inflation. It's deeply rooted in our brain and rightfully so. The first governments would dil…

> You can't predict demand, nobody can.

You can't predict demand perfectly, but you absolutely can predict demand. In fact that's exactly what everyone is doing when they speculate.

There are also processes that help you predict floors to demand - e.g. that you must pay US taxes in US dollars.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#292

Post by koheripbal »

mratsim wrote: post #197
delaaxe wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> multi-year bond instrument that would pay coin dividends well into the future That's a great idea. I'm not aware of any blockchain that does this, although some projects with seed funding do have long lockup periods

Projects related to fixed income I know of are: - https://88mph.app/ - https://alchemix.fi/ - https://www.apwine.fi/ - And https://curve.fi/ allows for 4 years lockup of their token to earn more fees.

The issue is that if they are based on ETH, then they still have the same problem. We need a NEW coin that has this functionality.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#293

Post by dharma1 »

orky56 wrote: post #35
dharma1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the primary reason interest rates are high in crypto lending right now (also on USD stablecoins) is leveraged speculation - people using crypto as collateral to leverage their crypto positions higher (and/or yield farm) and are prepared to pay a relatively high interest rate for it (~10% on stablecoins) because the expected gains are a fair bit higher. I don’t expect this will last forever

Anecdotally many crypto holders prefer to not liquidate their crypto positions but instead take out loans via BlockFi to purchase hard assets like real estate. With cash in hand and now a property, they can get a cash out refi and the crypto loan is not a taxable event since the crypto was just collateral.

Yep this is the other use case for crypto lending

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#294

Post by dharma1 »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #30
dharma1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the primary reason interest rates are high in crypto lending right now (also on USD stablecoins) is leveraged speculation - people using crypto as collateral to leverage their crypto positions higher (and/or yield farm) and are prepared to pay a relatively high interest rate for it (~10% on stablecoins) because the expected gains are a fair bit higher. I don’t expect this will last forever

You say that one can create leverage by borrowing? How does that work? Is it a contract like "You borrow me 1 ETH and I will pay back 1.1 ETH in a year. Except when X happens, then I will pay back 2 ETH"? If so, what is X?

Check out Aave or Compound. You basically use your crypto as collateral, and do whatever you want with the borrowed money. If you want to take the borrowed money and get even more (leveraged) exposure to crypto, you can. You don’t pay back more than the borrowed capital plus interest.

https://docs.aave.com/faq/borrowing

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#295

Post by CyberDildonics »

imtringued wrote: post #288
CyberDildonics wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utility? The transaction fees are around $30 USD now.

Presumably someone receives more than $30 in value from these transactions, otherwise they wouldn't be willing to pay them.

No one is contradicting a basic tautology like that.

What do you think people are using those transactions for? The average transaction value is of $5,000 USD.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionvalue-eth.ht...

Do you think people are making these transactions for anything other than speculation? You said value, I said utility.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#296

Post by ObserverNeutral »

kybernetikos wrote: post #291
ObserverNeutral wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scarce simply means is in short supply, but prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand You can't predict demand, nobody can. So all things being equal (demand being unpredictable) you are better off holding something which is in low supply. People are absulutely scared to death about inflation. It's deeply rooted in our brain and rightfully so. The first governments would dil…

> You can't predict demand, nobody can. You can't predict demand perfectly, but you absolutely can predict demand. In fact that's exactly what everyone is doing when they speculate. There are also processes that help you predict floors to demand - e.g. that you must pay US taxes in US dollars.

> You can't predict demand perfectly, but you absolutely can predict demand. In fact that's exactly what everyone is doing when they speculate.

If you want to make money you have to be pretty accurate in your prediction.

Nobody knows what Bitcoin or the S&P will do tomorrow. It's all rooted in psychology and we don't understand anything about it.

We don't even know where ideas come from

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#297

Post by ObserverNeutral »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #281
ObserverNeutral wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> financial applications Legacy financial applications are fine. People who are afraid of inflation just convert BTC>USD the sole amount they need to use the financial application and that's it. Also DeFi apps are very illiquid and extremely complicated to use. Finally let's not hide the truth: 99% of financial apps are based on loans. Crypto loans are doomed because people don't want to borrow crypto as they anticip…

>>Legacy financial applications are fine. They are not at all. Governments and financial institutions can lock funds, do 'hair cuts', as they did in the European financial crisis, and engage in other such shenanigans. They can debank or otherwise exclude people and companies from the payment system, or refuse them banking services at all. But really, your statement says it all. This is what anti-Ethereum advocacy amo…

> They are not at all. Governments and financial institutions can lock funds, do 'hair cuts', as they did in the European financial crisis, and engage in other such shenanigans. They can debank or otherwise exclude people and companies from the payment system, or refuse them banking services at all.

All that is signed off and approved by the popultion. In the beginning the nascent financial system which today is labled "legacy" was the wild west as well. Then it was an organic growth of scrutiny because it was demanded by the population. Every megasocial system such as US, EU, China...even North Korea organizes itself based on the population desires.

All those things aren't imposed from above by an omniscent and evil dictator or done in the dark, the Patriot Act is supported by the majority of the population, so it's all the rest.

People accept and embrace the government playing the role of policeman in the financial and capital markets.

You are the fringe minority, and frankly people in the cryptospace lack the pragmatism to understand that they are a fringe minority.

People who are the fringe minority should hide and find holes in the power of the controlling authority and USE THEM AND KEEP THEM TO THEMSELVES opposed to creating mega structures to invite and pursue those who sign off and approve the aforementioned authority. Such attempts will fail because the target demographics is totally onboard with the authority.

> Uniswap had $10 billion in trading volume over the last week. That's in the same league as major exchanges like Bitfinex and Kraken. It's also extremely easy to use, with no sign-up/registration required, and a trade being possible with 3 clicks.

Sure in the ETH ecosystem, tell me again where can I spend ETH or Stablecoins based on ETH? Nowhere.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#299

Post by throwaway_isms »

spinny wrote: post #270
throwaway_isms wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money behind big tech has mastered manipulating demand and that is exactly what you are seeing in the Ethereum/NFT ecosystem. It is one giant fraud bankrolled by unlimited capital that can artificially increase prices at which point there becomes demand from people in fear of missing out, once the early capital has the suckers locked in the prices plateau at first as the capital stops buying and driving the price…

100% agree. ERC20 have matured to the point where some valuable projects actually exists. There is probably some shady business around NTFs today and the non-shady business portion of the market is very small. imho, NFTs have lots of potential to facilitate purchase and sell of real world items (buy a car with a USDC transaction to a smart contract). This is the NFT "killer app" to me

Not sure why you were downvoted on this comment.

The city of Miami is putting together a investigating committee/task force to see how public services can incorporate blockchain.

I think it will be implemented, not at the City but the County level, for recording property Deeds. Though 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, its anyone's guess.

The NFT killer app, the writing is on the wall and it will be stocks/stock exchange.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#300

Post by [deleted] »

asenna wrote: post #183
ObserverNeutral wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The greatest motivation for Crypto success are hatred and fear. BTC is succeeding because people hate/fear Central Banks printing money , so people love BTC and hate Central Banks. Ethereum doesn't put itself up against the printing of money but against companies instead. Google, Apple, Spotify etc. People don't hate those companies and to the extent that they do....they manifest their hate by asking Government t…

If you think the point of decentralized systems are to ONLY replicate Google / Apple / Spotify services but in a decentralized manner, then you're mistaken. When the internet came along, it wasn't to only replicate the Post-office or to just make mails faster. The internet enabled a lot of things you couldn't even predict at that time (or perhaps some could, if they truly understood the tech). There are lots of thing…

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