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Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

cnn.com

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Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#161

Post by bredren »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #156
werdnapk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 kids in, aged 6, 4 and 2... 12 hours a night for all of them. I guess I did the "sleep training" thing, although all I did was what I thought was common sense stuff. Some things I did off the top of my head: - 15 min cry buffer. More than that and check diaper, or give a bottle/feeding. Never turn on the lights during these check-in times... always use a dim (soft colored light) night light that's already on to kee…

To further with some views on feeding: 1. breast pumping provided us appreciated flexibility. After a crappy one, we got a good breast pump that did both at once. Wife appreciated being untethered from child for her relief. I appreciated being able to feed child. 2. We weren't too worried when we switched to formula exclusively after a while. Sooo many people get hung up on "breast is best" dialogue. Best comment I h…

Would you mind sharing the type of breast pump that ended up better for you two?

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#162

Post by _carbyau_ »

bredren wrote: post #161
_carbyau_ wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To further with some views on feeding: 1. breast pumping provided us appreciated flexibility. After a crappy one, we got a good breast pump that did both at once. Wife appreciated being untethered from child for her relief. I appreciated being able to feed child. 2. We weren't too worried when we switched to formula exclusively after a while. Sooo many people get hung up on "breast is best" dialogue. Best comment I h…

Would you mind sharing the type of breast pump that ended up better for you two?

Unfortunately work automatically blocks the site due to the word "breast" in it. Also, as an Australian this may not be helpful but that's for you to decide.

https://spectra-baby.com.au

I think we have the Spectra S2 still in the cupboard for a possible next kid.

The difference between this and a cheapo one we got because we didn't know better:

- two at a time, concurrency FTW! 10 mins instead of 20 was appreciated, especially in the middle of the night! once going, milk production waits for no one.

- much quieter

- separately adjustable timing and force(pressure). Cheapo just had a single dial for "more" or "less".

- handy nightlight built in. Not a biggy but there.

Possible negative for breast pumps in general. Wife mentioned feeling like a cow in a milking shed. But would do it again.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#163

Post by aoeusnth1 »

ziml77 wrote: post #145
MauranKilom wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that "People who do X are 30% more likely to get X" is commonly understood to imply causation.

How would you phrase it? Because I did not read that as meaning that less sleep caused dementia.

"is associated with" is a much more neutral phrasing. The phrasing did not denote causality but does imply it to a casual reader.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#164

Post by eurasiantiger »

heavyset_go wrote: post #159
eurasiantiger wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That study conflates caffeine and coffee from the very first word in the abstract. I wouldn’t trust it at all — it’s like an article about CPUs but the writer doesn’t understand the difference between a processor (called CPU) and the rest of the stuff in the computer case (which, as a whole, is also called CPU).

So I read the whole paper, and not just the abstract. The authors do not conflate caffeine and coffee in the meta-analysis, in fact, they cite several studies that document the association between coffee consumption and the reduced risk of cognitive decline.

Did you check whether those studies do this conflation? Were they epidemiological studies (which cannot prove causality), or double-blind randomized studies (which can)?

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#166

Post by bredren »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #162
bredren wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind sharing the type of breast pump that ended up better for you two?

Unfortunately work automatically blocks the site due to the word "breast" in it. Also, as an Australian this may not be helpful but that's for you to decide. https://spectra-baby.com.au I think we have the Spectra S2 still in the cupboard for a possible next kid. The difference between this and a cheapo one we got because we didn't know better: - two at a time, concurrency FTW! 10 mins instead of 20 was appreciated,…

Thanks again.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#167

Post by jiofih »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #141
jiofih wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t upvote this nonsense. Harmala alkaloids are found in tobacco, not coffee.

They are found in both, in high concentrations. Tobacco smoke and coffee are the two most significant sources of Harmala alkaloids in the human diet. (Source: T. Herraiz)

Well, they are found in everything, meat, soy sauce, beer, right? Tobacco is a much more common source. By the logic of your previous argument, eating yakisoba could lead to dementia.

Interestingly, your source’s paper on this says that coffee protects against brain disease:

> epidemiological studies have consistently shown that coffee drinkers have an apparently lower incidence of Parkinson's disease (PD), suggesting that coffee might somehow act as a purported neuroprotectant

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16139309/

Either way, I’m not particularly interested in this subject, the point is that making wild medical claims without sources in an online forum is best avoided.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#168

Post by codyswann »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #164
heavyset_go wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I read the whole paper, and not just the abstract. The authors do not conflate caffeine and coffee in the meta-analysis, in fact, they cite several studies that document the association between coffee consumption and the reduced risk of cognitive decline.

Did you check whether those studies do this conflation? Were they epidemiological studies (which cannot prove causality), or double-blind randomized studies (which can)?

I think that burden falls on you since you're the one trying to discredit the study.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#169

Post by eurasiantiger »

codyswann wrote: post #168
eurasiantiger wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you check whether those studies do this conflation? Were they epidemiological studies (which cannot prove causality), or double-blind randomized studies (which can)?

I think that burden falls on you since you're the one trying to discredit the study.

Well, yeah. The studies were all longitudinal studies relying on self-reporting and some found an increased risk for >5 cups per day. Since a ”cup” is not a well defined measurement anyway, these are not very rigorous studies. It’s baffling that scientists so readily interpret these results to mean something, when it’s infinitely more likely they’ve missed some unexpected confounders.

I found no mention of MAO inhibitors, beta-carbolines or heterocyclic aromatic amines in coffee. The authors seem to be unaware of their existence, even though they could explain the results in many ways.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#170

Post by eurasiantiger »

jiofih wrote: post #167
eurasiantiger wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are found in both, in high concentrations. Tobacco smoke and coffee are the two most significant sources of Harmala alkaloids in the human diet. (Source: T. Herraiz)

Well, they are found in everything, meat, soy sauce, beer, right? Tobacco is a much more common source. By the logic of your previous argument, eating yakisoba could lead to dementia. Interestingly, your source’s paper on this says that coffee protects against brain disease: > epidemiological studies have consistently shown that coffee drinkers have an apparently lower incidence of Parkinson's disease (PD), suggestin…

They are indeed found in many products, but the key is the exact nature of the specific substances. Do they inhibit MAO-A, MAO-B, or both? Are they irreversible or reversible inhibitors? Do they do other things like cause neurotoxicity? The Harmala family has dozens of compounds, some good for you (for example MAO-B inhibitors indeed prevent PD, because MAO-B inhibitors are used to treat it) and some bad, like some beta-carbolines that are indeed neurotoxic.

Again, the total amounts are what matters. It’s much easier to take in too much MAOIs from tobacco and coffee than by eating meat.

Something seeming to protect against one specific disorder does not mean that it protects against all diseases.

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