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Apple Introduces AirTag

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Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#901

Post by [deleted] »

zxcvgm wrote: post #211
crazygringo wrote: post #71

I thought one of the big use cases for this was to track stolen items, like a backpack or maybe even a bicycle. But the "anti-stalking" feature will notify someone if an AirTag they don't own appears to be traveling with them. Does this render it useless for anti-theft, then? Since it will just notify a thief that the bike they just stole is being tracked, and they can look for the AirTag and throw it in the nearest…

I too, found the anti-stalking features might hinder the use of AirTags for locating intentionally stolen items: (1) it has a removable battery, and also (2) "someone can tap [the tag] with their iPhone or NFC-capable device and instructions will guide them to disable the unknown AirTag". The anti-stalking feature also seems to contradict its privacy features: > Bluetooth signal identifiers transmitted by AirTag rota…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#902

Post by jonfw »

angry_octet wrote: post #643
billyhoffman wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A local device like an iPhone has to know what AirTags are yours, since they have to guide to back to the beacon. If your iPhone notices beacons that appear at multiple locations, that aren't yours, it can detect that.

It isn't yet clear how that detection occurs.

Apple knows who you are. Apple knows which airtag you're near. You don't know which airtag you're near. It seems pretty clear that apple can use this information to tell if an airtag was placed in your car unbeknownst to you. Not sure what the mystery is.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#903

Post by just-ok »

themark wrote: post #432
just-ok wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I’m surprised more people aren’t mentioning this: I’m really not a fan of being an involuntary participant in Apple’s mesh network. I guess I could monitor my Bluetooth status more often, but the Control Center toggle (intentionally) doesn’t turn it off entirely...

Yeah I find it really annoying that the toggle doesn't work like it should. I made a shortcut that will turn it off all the way.

Can you share how you did that? I've been trying to achieve that for both Bluetooth and Location Services (mini-rant: not adding a CC toggle for that is such a dark pattern) but haven't been able to pull it off.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#904

Post by fighterpilot »

rcpt wrote: post #475

Once I started using Tile it became impossible for me to remember where I put my keys. There just wasn't any pressure to stay organized since the beeping would always save me. But whenever the battery was out or the Bluetooth wasn't connecting oh boy. Same kind of thing happened with GPS. I used to pay more attention to maps and really learned streets but now I just expect the phone to solve everything for me. I'm lo…

My question is, are we losing critical tools that would otherwise be helpful, or are we freeing up bandwidth for other things that are more useful and relevant in modern times?

I also couldn't read a map to save my life but I'm not sure if this is a loss (lacking this abstract tool) or a win (opportunity cost wise).

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#905

Post by andrewl-hn »

snailmailman wrote: post #334
john_payette wrote: post #171

This tag has an U1 chip using Ultra Wide Band (UWB) which means that iPhones 11 and above also equipped with those chips will be able to locate those tags from 80m away with a +/-30cm accuracy. U1 UWB uses short pulses at 6.24GHz and 8.2GHz and positioning is done by combining time of flight (ToF) and angle of arrival (AoA).

I'm really curious how accurate this ends up being. Bluetooth location is one thing, but I've never seen bluetooth that can do anything more accurate than "X meters away" These UWB chips claim to do "X meters away in Y direction". The direction aspect could be revolutionary if it works well. AirTags is the perfect use for it as well.

Our company experiments with indoor location tracking using UWB beacons. We've got a few demo kits from different vendors to test it out.

Overall, If you have a UWB receiver devices installed ~ every 4-5 meters (15 feet) you can triangulate beacon's position to a pretty precise degree (around 10 cm / 4 inches accuracy). You can even detect the height of a beacon above the floor.

However, triangulation is the key. Often we have to install extra receivers just to deal with big columns and barriers, sources of intense electromagnetism (like big electric engines or microwaves), or some materials (glass doors turned out to be a major problem, wooden doors - not so much).

I'm not sure how accurate a positioning can be with your phone acting as a sole UWB receiver. Clearly Apple can make it work sufficiently well for an everyday use, but it won't be as precise as they show in carefully constructed demos.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#906

Post by neop1x »

john_payette wrote: post #171

This tag has an U1 chip using Ultra Wide Band (UWB) which means that iPhones 11 and above also equipped with those chips will be able to locate those tags from 80m away with a +/-30cm accuracy. U1 UWB uses short pulses at 6.24GHz and 8.2GHz and positioning is done by combining time of flight (ToF) and angle of arrival (AoA).

UWB is also integrated in the newest Samsung phones https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/8/22373410/samsung-galaxy-sm...

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#907

Post by BoorishBears »

angry_octet wrote: post #880
BoorishBears wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Holy Grail of surveillance espionage"... maybe the holy grail alarmist statements. Why are firmware modifications for this "certain" first off? And what modifications allow this to work as designed without setting off anti-stalking? If you somehow change the ID it's reporting which afaik is a signed value anyways, how are you going to get access to it's location? If you don't disable anti-stalking then this is no be…

Nation state attacks are certain because of the massive payoff if they are successful. Were you asleep when the Snowdon NSA leaks happened? [1] If you can change the ID you can cycle through a list of valid IDs. You can even use it for bit rate comms, ~16 bits an hour or something, which is enough to signal events like "number of iDevices in vicinity", or, if other hardware is used, step count/hour, which works even…

"Were you asleep when the Edward Snowden leak happened"

... yeah I'm not going to play this game.

Nation states are certainly doing better than AirTags if that's what you're worried about Secret Agent.

Passive trackers will let you pinpoint someone indefinitely.

And someone motivated is going to catch your spurious 3G emissions but miss an AirTag literally designed to be noticable?

Puhlease. If a nation state is chasing you and this is what turns the tides I strongly suggest turning yourself into their embassy now, save yourself the trouble.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#908

Post by Dylan16807 »

psychometry wrote: post #873
Dylan16807 wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you like to hear the reasons to let cats outside, or have you already heard and ignored them many times?

I'd actually like to hear one good reason, sure.

Giving them more activities to do and the greatly increased exercise are the two big ones. Even if you think it's better to keep a cat inside, there are strong reasons in either direction. People that let their cats outside aren't just being dumb.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#909

Post by tekknik »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #877
tekknik wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about realizing if a toy has a battery or not, the choking hazard alone is enough. There’s also no electronic devices a child should swallow. Kids are swallowing these because parents like this aren’t thinking.

I see you do not have a child. I hate the trite “oh, you'll know when you're a parent!” stuff as much as the next person, but… have you met a one-year-old? So curious, and so quick to eat new things: a bad combo if I've ever seen one.

Hmm, so I have no child and no experience huh? What happened to baby proofing houses? Keeping items they shouldn’t eat out of reach? As a parent it is your job to keep that child safe until they can do the same, and leaving dangerous items around is failing that one task. You don’t leave things around that hurts your child, be it guns or batteries.

Re: Apple Introduces AirTag

#910

Post by tekknik »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #890
tekknik wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s also connectors that wouldn’t be there normally, those connectors also have to be large enough to support the current. Then there’s the plastic lined battery well, as well as the plastic battery case. It’s not as simple as throwing plastic around a battery and calling it a day.

> There’s also connectors that wouldn’t be there normally, those connectors also have to be large enough to support the current. Supporting 5-10 amps requires very small pins. It's a tiny percentage of the battery size. > Then there’s the plastic lined battery well, as well as the plastic battery case. It’s not as simple as throwing plastic around a battery and calling it a day. Yes, those are the layers of plastic I…

> Why is that the requirement? The extra layers of plastic to enable removable batteries cost close to zero dollars and don't have to cost more than a millimeter.

That very last phrase you said a millimeter. None of this will fit in one millimeter, which was my counter.

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