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Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

cnn.com

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Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#141

Post by eurasiantiger »

jiofih wrote: post #125
eurasiantiger wrote: post #75

Many forms of dementia destroy dopaminergic neurons, and this process begins much earlier than symptoms of dementia itself manifest. From what I’ve gathered from reading studies across the years, less dopaminergic capacity seems to be associated with less restful sleep. The conclusions of this study seem to have it backwards. It’s not lack of sleep that causes dementia, it’s early dementia that causes insomnia. Edit:…

Please don’t upvote this nonsense. Harmala alkaloids are found in tobacco, not coffee.

They are found in both, in high concentrations. Tobacco smoke and coffee are the two most significant sources of Harmala alkaloids in the human diet. (Source: T. Herraiz)

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#142

Post by bredren »

werdnapk wrote: post #104
bredren wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m expecting my first child in June and have sort of been preparing for misery when it comes to sleep. I appreciate you sharing this.

3 kids in, aged 6, 4 and 2... 12 hours a night for all of them. I guess I did the "sleep training" thing, although all I did was what I thought was common sense stuff. Some things I did off the top of my head: - 15 min cry buffer. More than that and check diaper, or give a bottle/feeding. Never turn on the lights during these check-in times... always use a dim (soft colored light) night light that's already on to kee…

Thank you for these specific points of advice.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#143

Post by eurasiantiger »

gundmc wrote: post #93
eurasiantiger wrote: post #75

Many forms of dementia destroy dopaminergic neurons, and this process begins much earlier than symptoms of dementia itself manifest. From what I’ve gathered from reading studies across the years, less dopaminergic capacity seems to be associated with less restful sleep. The conclusions of this study seem to have it backwards. It’s not lack of sleep that causes dementia, it’s early dementia that causes insomnia. Edit:…

Coffee causing dementia is a pretty shocking claim that I haven't heard previously. Do you have more reading on this?

There’s something in (1), but it doesn’t address the entire spectrum of Harmala alkaloid neurotoxicity (2) (3). It has been shown that heterocyclic aromatic amines (which Harmala alkaloids belong to) indeed damage dopaminergic neurons (4).

(1): https://hammer.purdue.edu/articles/thesis/Identification_of_... (2): https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ijc.20703 (3): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S157002320... (4): https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/article-abstract/173/1/171/5...

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#144

Post by tartoran »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #75

Many forms of dementia destroy dopaminergic neurons, and this process begins much earlier than symptoms of dementia itself manifest. From what I’ve gathered from reading studies across the years, less dopaminergic capacity seems to be associated with less restful sleep. The conclusions of this study seem to have it backwards. It’s not lack of sleep that causes dementia, it’s early dementia that causes insomnia. Edit:…

The OP doesn’t suggest that coffee may cause dementia but was a possibility for sleep deprived and low on dopamine individuals drinking too much coffee to stay functional, exacerbating their sleep deprivation thus rising the prospects of developing dementia.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#145

Post by ziml77 »

MauranKilom wrote: post #140
fish45 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it insinuates a causal relationship. I interpret "30% more likely" as the same as "associated with a 30% increase," which is what the article claims.

I would say that "People who do X are 30% more likely to get X" is commonly understood to imply causation.

How would you phrase it? Because I did not read that as meaning that less sleep caused dementia.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#146

Post by PeterisP »

irrational wrote: post #6

So, anyone with kids is probably going to have dementia?

IIRC there are studies that parenting small kids (not to those giving birth but to those actually raising infants) cuts off 1-2 years of expected lifespan, presumably due to the associated sleep disturbances.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#147

Post by PeterisP »

everfraid wrote: post #84
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not doubting anyone's personal experience, but to add another anecdotal data point: Kids weren't as disruptive to sleep as I expected after reading horror stories online. The way the internet talks about child raising sometimes makes it feel like martyrdom, but the internet tends to focus on worst-case stories and people venting about uniquely bad situations. It's almost taboo to share positive stories when other par…

I'd love to go to sleep an hour earlier, but my 3year old is not asleep at that time :) And he wakes up at 5, so that's great. Maybe when he start skipping his midday nap, we'll start to get some more sleep. Until then, it's dementia I guess.

The kid still sleeps more than you need over the whole day; so you "just" need to take midday naps as well.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#148

Post by gregf »

pvarangot wrote: post #138
gregf wrote: post #66

I'm screwed then. Due to a mental issue and my sleep paralysis I'm lucky if I sleep 3-4 hours a night as much as I would like to sleep more.

That little sleep has way more possible dire consequences that just dementia. There's literature all over the place about it, I don't even know where to start. How old are you? I don't know anyone that can live with getting that little sleep unless they are also on amphetamines.

Turning 40 in August. I haven't slept this badly all my life. It's got worse over the years. Specially the last 5 or so. I'm bipolar II, I take my meds as I'm supposed to, but I still seem to frequently cycle with manic episodes that keep me up working on projects all hours of the night. I then refuse to sleep all day, so I'll go to bed at say 3-4am and get up by 9am. Nights I can go to bed, I suffer from horrible sleep paralysis and that will have me waking me up throughout the night. Some of it is pretty disturbing, at least to me. So I end up giving after it happening several times in a night and just not sleeping any longer.

Sleep issues run in the family though. My father is a logger and I have never seen him sleep longer than 5-6 hours my entire life.

*EDIT* not abusing Amphetamine's BTW. Sorry forgot to even talk about that. Just lots of mania I would guess. Like right now, I have been kinda down and depressed all afternoon. It's now 6pm where I'm at, and I just had a switch go off, and now I'm full of energy and will probably end up coding till I drop. I'm my own worst enemy, I know.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#149

Post by eurasiantiger »

tartoran wrote: post #144
eurasiantiger wrote: post #75

Many forms of dementia destroy dopaminergic neurons, and this process begins much earlier than symptoms of dementia itself manifest. From what I’ve gathered from reading studies across the years, less dopaminergic capacity seems to be associated with less restful sleep. The conclusions of this study seem to have it backwards. It’s not lack of sleep that causes dementia, it’s early dementia that causes insomnia. Edit:…

The OP doesn’t suggest that coffee may cause dementia but was a possibility for sleep deprived and low on dopamine individuals drinking too much coffee to stay functional, exacerbating their sleep deprivation thus rising the prospects of developing dementia.

No, I was explicitly suggesting that neurotoxic amines in coffee may be building up in some, possibly genetically predisposed heavy coffee drinkers, causing loss of dopaminergic neurons and ultimately dementia, or other neurological disorders.

This exact mechanism has been shown to be the cause of a very common neurological disorder called essential tremor. Patients have a genetic predisposition for building up tremor-inducing Harmala alkaloids due to reduced metabolism.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#150

Post by eurasiantiger »

ckosidows wrote: post #98
eurasiantiger wrote: post #75

Many forms of dementia destroy dopaminergic neurons, and this process begins much earlier than symptoms of dementia itself manifest. From what I’ve gathered from reading studies across the years, less dopaminergic capacity seems to be associated with less restful sleep. The conclusions of this study seem to have it backwards. It’s not lack of sleep that causes dementia, it’s early dementia that causes insomnia. Edit:…

Just coffee or anything with caffeine? I'm really curious for a source on this, considering how much coffee I drink weekly.

Just coffee. You may have a MAOA VNTR that predisposes you to like coffee.
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