Live data from Hacker News

Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

cnn.com

101–110 of 173 posts

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#101

Many forms of dementia destroy dopaminergic neurons, and this process begins much earlier than symptoms of dementia itself manifest. From what I’ve gathered from reading studies across the years, less dopaminergic capacity seems to be associated with less restful sleep. The conclusions of this study seem to have it backwards. It’s not lack of sleep that causes dementia, it’s early dementia that causes insomnia. Edit:…

I agree you have to examine both directions, and a common cause, but the article somewhat addresses that under "chicken or egg?" The headline is misleading.

Big idea: a common cause may be jaw development and the resulting lack of breathing (during the day and during sleep) in large parts of the population.

Jaw development has a strong claim to be the fundamental, common cause of poor breathing and sleep because it's derived from 2 fundamental differences between humans and animals: agriculture and speech.

It's a long chain of causation, and took me awhile to learn about, but it may be what you're looking for.

Of course it could also be the case that some people are just staring at screens too much before bed and getting poor sleep. But bad sleep is an epidemic and there is evidence of this all over the world, and going back hundreds of years. The books I reference tell of orthodontists from the 1800's who noticed this problem, etc. Our diets drastically changed, which caused poor jaw development, which causes bad breathing, which causes bad sleep (I learned about this from my dentist).

There are many factors that restrict airways, including weight. Remember that the average American male is about 30 pounds heavier in 2020 than in 1960 (and similarly for females). It's hard to imagine that not having an effect of breathing and sleep (and thus dementia). But I think animals can be fat and still have plenty of air for breathing; the same isn't true for humans.

Previous comment I wrote on this including recent books (2018-2020): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23435964

That article is "fitful nightly sleep linked to chronic inflammation and hardened arteries". That is another correlation, not a causation. So I would suggest that bad sleep, inflammation, hardened arteries, and dementia have a common cause in jaw and airway development. This is a lot harder to see because it took place over 10,000 years and it takes 30-50 years to kill you. You can have bad breathing your whole life but still be functional. It's very related to tooth grinding/bruxism, which is an epidemic as well.

Other threads on Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24247066

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's leaning hard into the stimulants...

People with amphetamine habits typically look very skinny and unhealthy because amphetamines suppress appetite. Same for cocaine, ritalin and all other dopaminergic stimulants. They can also have facial scabs because of obsessive picking/scratching, and tend to be very twitchy and hyper. He doesn't come off that way at all during interviews. My personal experience leads me to believe that there is no way Elon Musk co…

I dunno what his schedule is. Maybe he just seems busier than he actually is.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#103
post #64
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I naturally sleep around 7 hours. If I get Another thing that my wife hates (ie, is jealous of), is my head hits the pillow and I'm out. Also, during that 6 hour sweet spot, I can sleep through almost anything.

My dad is like this. Please tell me as I am curious, do you tend to self-reflect or have a vivid inner world? I'm trying to understand how my dad does this and my current theory is that he simply does not dwell on things and runs mostly on instinct.

I self reflect a lot, but don't dwell on things outside of my control. How an interaction with a co-worker went I might think about for days and even journal about, but I can't tell you what I read on HN yesterday unless it fit into something I'm working on.

I exercise almost every day and have for over 20 years. It definitely helps.

I do have a basic bedtime routine. I go to bed at a consistent time, but I don't avoid screens or anything. I do avoid games and any news type things when I'm winding down for bed, but will read and watch part (it's always a part b/c I'm asleep before it's over heh) of a show on my phone. Also, DnD kicks on about an hour before bed so a random work email doesn't derail me.

Finally, if there is something I'm worried about I take care of it. This goes back to not dwelling on things outside of my control, and dealing with the things that are.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#104
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not doubting anyone's personal experience, but to add another anecdotal data point: Kids weren't as disruptive to sleep as I expected after reading horror stories online. The way the internet talks about child raising sometimes makes it feel like martyrdom, but the internet tends to focus on worst-case stories and people venting about uniquely bad situations. It's almost taboo to share positive stories when other par…

I’m expecting my first child in June and have sort of been preparing for misery when it comes to sleep. I appreciate you sharing this.

3 kids in, aged 6, 4 and 2... 12 hours a night for all of them. I guess I did the "sleep training" thing, although all I did was what I thought was common sense stuff.

Some things I did off the top of my head:

- 15 min cry buffer. More than that and check diaper, or give a bottle/feeding. Never turn on the lights during these check-in times... always use a dim (soft colored light) night light that's already on to keep things "dark". Changing diapers with little light gets easier the more you do it.

- Burping a newborn/baby is an essential technique. Don't leave the feeding until you get a good burp out of them. More often than not if the diaper is clean and they're fed, and they keep crying, it's trapped air that needs to be burped out.

- I use a sound machine with white noise which drowns out almost all external noises.

- No soothers. I let me kids figure out where their thumbs are and they use that. Too many times with my first kid I was going in to pick up the soother that dropped out of their mouth which made them cry.

- Keep their room "cool". Nobody likes sweating in their sleep.

A newborn will be waking up every 2-3 hours likely, but so far for me, by 3-5 months, the kids get to 12 hours.

Side note, I'm the father of the kids. Breastfeeding was not done by me, so I'd bottle feed from pumped milk.

Good luck!

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#105

Many forms of dementia destroy dopaminergic neurons, and this process begins much earlier than symptoms of dementia itself manifest. From what I’ve gathered from reading studies across the years, less dopaminergic capacity seems to be associated with less restful sleep. The conclusions of this study seem to have it backwards. It’s not lack of sleep that causes dementia, it’s early dementia that causes insomnia. Edit:…

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20182054/#:~:text=In%20the%2... . this says coffee is associated with a reduced risk of dementia which is pretty much what I've read over and over again

Thank you! I was freaking out about my beloved coffee addiction.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#107

Many forms of dementia destroy dopaminergic neurons, and this process begins much earlier than symptoms of dementia itself manifest. From what I’ve gathered from reading studies across the years, less dopaminergic capacity seems to be associated with less restful sleep. The conclusions of this study seem to have it backwards. It’s not lack of sleep that causes dementia, it’s early dementia that causes insomnia. Edit:…

> it’s early dementia that causes insomnia

> If they drink too much coffee, they might accidentally poison themselves into dementia

Oh crap

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's leaning hard into the stimulants...

People with amphetamine habits typically look very skinny and unhealthy because amphetamines suppress appetite. Same for cocaine, ritalin and all other dopaminergic stimulants. They can also have facial scabs because of obsessive picking/scratching, and tend to be very twitchy and hyper. He doesn't come off that way at all during interviews. My personal experience leads me to believe that there is no way Elon Musk co…

>My personal experience leads me to believe that there is no way Elon Musk could have been dosing stimulants for the last 10-20 years and look as good and as relatively calm as he does.

Looks can be deceiving :P Years ago Elon was balding hard and now he has a full head of hair.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's leaning hard into the stimulants...

People with amphetamine habits typically look very skinny and unhealthy because amphetamines suppress appetite. Same for cocaine, ritalin and all other dopaminergic stimulants. They can also have facial scabs because of obsessive picking/scratching, and tend to be very twitchy and hyper. He doesn't come off that way at all during interviews. My personal experience leads me to believe that there is no way Elon Musk co…

Your reasoning might hold for an average user but not for a billionaire like Musk. He'll obviously have very smart people research and design a cycle for him that mitigates the usual side effects. With calorie intake monitoring, vitamins and anything you can remotely think of. A guy like Musk will also react more controlled with regard to amphetamines.

Whether he actually uses amphetamines I have no idea. But I'd not be surprised to learn that he has his own RC lab.

Post reply on HN