Live data from Hacker News

Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

cnn.com

81–90 of 173 posts

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#81

"However, this study cannot establish cause and effect" is the only part of this article that matters, and it demonstrates the ineptitude of the article writer.

As people age and that their brains change, many end up sleeping less automatically, so it could be a common cause for both

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#82

In contrast, a quasi-causal analysis (via Mendelian randomization) found no causal effect of sleep duration on Alzheimer's risk. > There was little evidence to support associations of increased sleep duration with ... Alzheimer's disease risk [OR = 0.89 (95% CI = 0.67-1.18); P = 0.41]. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31062029/

The study you cite isn't really in conflict with the parent study. They note that the number of individuals with Alzheimer's Disease in the study was too small to develop a non-linear model relating sleep duration to AD risk:

Pg. 858:

"Similarly, short and long sleep duration and poor sleep quality have also been linked with an increased risk of dementia. Although a similar J-shaped association was observed in our observational analysis, we were limited to performing only the linear MR analysis, as the non-linear MR method requires a large number of cases and individual-level data. In our linear MR analysis, we found no clear evidence that an increased sleep duration was associated with a higher risk of all-cause dementia in UK Biobank or with AD in IGAP. This is unsurprising, as the true association might be non-linear and we were limited with only 1343 dementia cases in UK Biobank. Also, IGAP does not capture non-AD dementia types and comprises an older and more heterogeneous population."

"Results for risks of dementia and AD are still too imprecise to draw any definitive conclusions. Our findings suggest that, in clinical care, attention should be paid to sleep-duration patterns and improved sleep habits could represent a potential therapeutic target for cognition."

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are willing to trade health for fortune and fame. There's been interviews with Musk where he describes being unable to turn his brain off. He's probably just leaning hard into the cards that life dealt him - a wildly productive brain that wants to go go go. I don't blame him for taking what he was dealt, and running with it.

He's leaning hard into the stimulants...

People with amphetamine habits typically look very skinny and unhealthy because amphetamines suppress appetite. Same for cocaine, ritalin and all other dopaminergic stimulants. They can also have facial scabs because of obsessive picking/scratching, and tend to be very twitchy and hyper. He doesn't come off that way at all during interviews.

My personal experience leads me to believe that there is no way Elon Musk could have been dosing stimulants for the last 10-20 years and look as good and as relatively calm as he does. You build a tolerance very quickly, and any edge that you thought the stimulants were giving you will fade away fast. Then, if you increase the dose, your life will spiral off the rails as you become more manic, impulsive and irrational (eg: gambling, sex, spending sprees, irritability, violence, paranoia). Just Google John McAfee if you want to see what this can look like.

IMO Elon Musk just has lucky genetics and doesn't need much sleep, always has high energy. There are people who are fortunate to be born like that.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#84

So, anyone with kids is probably going to have dementia?

Not doubting anyone's personal experience, but to add another anecdotal data point: Kids weren't as disruptive to sleep as I expected after reading horror stories online. The way the internet talks about child raising sometimes makes it feel like martyrdom, but the internet tends to focus on worst-case stories and people venting about uniquely bad situations. It's almost taboo to share positive stories when other par…

I'd love to go to sleep an hour earlier, but my 3year old is not asleep at that time :) And he wakes up at 5, so that's great. Maybe when he start skipping his midday nap, we'll start to get some more sleep. Until then, it's dementia I guess.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#85
We must avoid using causal words like "raises" when a statistical relationship is found. To raise something is to cause something lower to become something higher.

What the study found is that the pattern of sleeping less than six hours is seen more in people who develop dementia.

The study's own discussion states: "There is evidence of a bidirectional association between sleep dysfunction and pathophysiological changes in dementia{citations given}, highlighting the need for a longer time frame in studies."

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#86
post #11

More accurately, middle aged people who get less than 6 hours of sleep a night are 30% more likely to get dementia. I'd expect that people who get less than 6 hours of sleep are also more stressed and less health concious though.

That's not more accurately at all; you're still insinuating a causal relationship.

"More accurately, people with yellow-stained fingertips are more likely to get lung cancer."

The actual study's own title puts it more accurately:

"Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia"

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#87
post #64
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I naturally sleep around 7 hours. If I get Another thing that my wife hates (ie, is jealous of), is my head hits the pillow and I'm out. Also, during that 6 hour sweet spot, I can sleep through almost anything.

My dad is like this. Please tell me as I am curious, do you tend to self-reflect or have a vivid inner world? I'm trying to understand how my dad does this and my current theory is that he simply does not dwell on things and runs mostly on instinct.

Fwiw, I can also usually do this and I would consider myself a world class dweller.

For me, it's about

- consistent bedtime

- doing as little as possible involving a screen in bed

- consistent bedtime routine

- consistent bedtime

Screwing any of these up can quite easily cause me to start worrying about things instead of falling asleep.

But I also think in part I'm just lucky and I can't really explain what causes it. I was always able to fall asleep in the car when I was younger, almost instantly. I can't fall asleep on public transport or planes at all though unless I'm really shattered.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#88
post #82

In contrast, a quasi-causal analysis (via Mendelian randomization) found no causal effect of sleep duration on Alzheimer's risk. > There was little evidence to support associations of increased sleep duration with ... Alzheimer's disease risk [OR = 0.89 (95% CI = 0.67-1.18); P = 0.41]. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31062029/

The study you cite isn't really in conflict with the parent study. They note that the number of individuals with Alzheimer's Disease in the study was too small to develop a non-linear model relating sleep duration to AD risk: Pg. 858: "Similarly, short and long sleep duration and poor sleep quality have also been linked with an increased risk of dementia. Although a similar J-shaped association was observed in our ob…

It doesn't disprove the parent study, but it certainly is not supportive of some of the causal interpretations of the observational study.

Re: Association of sleep duration in middle and old age with incidence of dementia

#89
I really hate these kinds of news stories. It's like: yes, here are some more ways that not getting enough sleep will kill you. Add dementia to weight gain, worsened immune function, etc. etc. Gee, let's all call the Magic Sleep Fairy and ask her to make it possible to sleep longer, as if jobs, family members, noisy neighbors, and all the rest of actual pieces of human existence that make adequate sleep impossible for many of us don't exist.
Post reply on HN