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“They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

lore.kernel.org

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Re: “They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

#681
post #626

It would be fascinating to see the ethics committee exemption. I sense there was none. Or is this kind of experiment deemed fair game? Red vs blue team kind of thing? Penetration testing. But if it was me in this situation, I'd ban them for ethics violation as well. Acting like a Evil doer means you might get caught... and punished. I found the email about cease and desist particularly bad behavior. If that student w…

I'm gonna guess the committee didn't realize the "patch process" was a manual review of each patches. The way it's worded in the paper you'd think they were testing some sort of integration testing or something.

Re: “They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

#682
Reminded me of story more than a decade ago about an academic who conducted a series of "breaching experiments" in City of Heroes/City of Villains to study group behavior, basically breaking the social rules (but not the game rules) without other participants' or the game studio's knowledge. It was discussed on HN in 2009 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=690551)

Here's how the professor (a sociologist) described his methodology:

These three sets of behaviors – rigidly competitive pvp tactics (e. g., droning), steadfastly uncooperative social play outside the game context (e. g., refusing to cooperate with zone farmers), and steadfastly uncooperative social play within the game context (e. g., playing solo and refusing team invitations) – marked Twixt’s play from the play of all others within RV.

Translation: He killed other players in situations that were allowed by the game's creators but frowned upon by the majority of real-life participants. For instance, "villains" and "heroes" aren't supposed to fraternize, but they do anyway. When "Twixt" happened upon these and other situations -- such as players building points by taking on easy missions against computer-generated enemies -- he would ruin them, often by "teleporting" players into unwinnable killzones. The other players would either die or have their social relations disrupted. Further, "Twixt" would rub it in by posting messages like:

Yay, heroes. Go good team. Vills lose again.

The reaction to the experiment and to the paper was what you would expect. The author later said it wasn't an experiment in the academic sense, claiming:

... this study is not really an experiment. I label it as a “breaching experiment” in reference to analogous methods of Garfinkel, but, in fact, neither his nor my methods are experimental in any truly scientific sense. This should be obvious in that experimental methods require some sort of control group and there was none in this case. Likewise, experimental methods are characterized by the manipulation of a treatment variable and, likewise, there was none in this case.

Links:

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/loyola_university...

https://www.ilamont.com/2009/07/academic-gets-rise-from-brea...

Re: “They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

#684
Researcher sends bogus papers to journal/conference, gets them reviewed and approved, uses that to point how ridiculous the review process of the journal is => GREAT JOB, PEER REVIEW SUCKS!

Researcher sends bogus patches to bazaar-style project, gets them reviewed and approved, uses that to point how ridiculous the review process of the project is => DON'T DO THAT! BAD RESEARCHER, BAD!

Re: “They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

#685
post #583

It's already being discussed on HN [1] but for some reason it's down to the 3rd page despite having ~1200 upvotes at the moment and ~600 comments, including from Greg KH. (And the submission is only 5 hours old.) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26887670

This is another example of HN's front page submission getting aggressively moderated for no good reason. It's been happening a lot lately.

Re: “They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

#686

Researcher sends bogus papers to journal/conference, gets them reviewed and approved, uses that to point how ridiculous the review process of the journal is => GREAT JOB, PEER REVIEW SUCKS! Researcher sends bogus patches to bazaar-style project, gets them reviewed and approved, uses that to point how ridiculous the review process of the project is => DON'T DO THAT! BAD RESEARCHER, BAD!

One potentially misleads readers of the journal, the other introduces security vulnerabilities into the world’s most popular operating system kernel.

Re: “They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

#688
post #641

One reviewers comments to a patch of theirs from 2 weeks ago "Plainly put, the patch demonstrates either complete lack of understanding or somebody not acting in good faith. If it's the latter[1], may I suggest the esteemed sociologists to fuck off and stop testing the reviewers with deliberately spewed excrements?" https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/YH4Aa1zFAWkITsNK@zeniv-ca.linux...

Interesting - follow that thread and you find https://lore.kernel.org/linux-next/202104081640.1A09A99900@k... where coverity-bot says "this is bullshit":

    vvv     CID 1503716:  Null pointer dereferences  (REVERSE_INULL)
    vvv     Null-checking "rm" suggests that it may be null, but it has already been dereferenced on all paths leading to the check.

Re: “They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

#689

This seems like a pretty scummy way to do "research". I mean I understand that people in academia are becoming increasingly disconnected from the real world, but wow this is low. It's not that they're doing this, I'm sure they're not the first to think of this (for research or malicious reasons), but having the gall to brag about it is a new low.

Unfortunately, we cannot be sure it is low for today's academia. So many people working there, with nothing useful to do other than flooding the conferences and journals with papers. They are desperate for anything that could be published. Plus, they know that the standards are low, because they see the other publications.

Re: “They introduce kernel bugs on purpose”

#690

This seems like a pretty scummy way to do "research". I mean I understand that people in academia are becoming increasingly disconnected from the real world, but wow this is low. It's not that they're doing this, I'm sure they're not the first to think of this (for research or malicious reasons), but having the gall to brag about it is a new low.

> having the gall to brag about it is a new low Even worse: They bragged about it, then sent a new wave of buggy patches to see if the "test subjects" fall for it once again, and then tried to push the blame on the kernel maintainers for being "intimidating to newbies". This is thinly veiled and potentially dangerous bullying.

There are some activities that should be "intimidating to newbies" though, shouldn't there? I can think of a lot of specific examples, but in general, anything where significant preparation is helpful in avoiding expensive (or dangerous) accidents. Or where lack of preparation (or intentional "mistakes" like in this case) would shift the burden of work unfairly onto someone else. Also, a "newbie" in the context of Linux system programming would still imply reasonable experience and skill in writing code, and in checking and testing your work.
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