US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer • Hacker News Board

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#151

Post by cjrp » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

rkangel wrote: post #106

This article presents a simplistic "UK football good, American football bad" viewpoint, but there some aspects to how the NFL is run that are desirable. Primarily here I'm talking about negative feedback. In the Premier League (as well as Formula 1, for example) there is positive feedback that keeps the top teams at the top. Being successful means that you make more money (whether directly through prize money, or ind…

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

> Rugby and hockey have that shit figured out, why cant they?

Something else they could learn from rugby, respect for the officials. The number of times you see football players chasing after or arguing with the referee is just embarrassing. Rugby officials don't stand for it, neither should football officials.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#152

Post by ssivark » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #106

This article presents a simplistic "UK football good, American football bad" viewpoint, but there some aspects to how the NFL is run that are desirable. Primarily here I'm talking about negative feedback. In the Premier League (as well as Formula 1, for example) there is positive feedback that keeps the top teams at the top. Being successful means that you make more money (whether directly through prize money, or ind…

I think most of that comes from the fact that American sports have playoff systems to determine eventual champions (and the uncertainty that entails) whereas leagues favor consistent performers (strongly correlated with the money a club can invest). If you see playoff-like national tournaments in European soccer (which happen in parallel with the leagues) those too tend to have a wider spread of winners.

At least in England, clubs are an integral part of local culture (see the emotions involved in a derby!), and the thought of “moving” a club to a different location would be heresy. I presume that it’s very similar in many other European countries too.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#153

Post by univalent » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

The owners are greedy excuses for human beings. But let's also not forget UEFA or FIFA who are acting like they are the good guys. They are garbage as well. The whole system needs reform. Can't stop with just the cancelation of the Super League.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#154

Post by kingofpandora » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

tanjtanjtanj wrote: post #138

xapata wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Leicester, as far as I know.

Yes. Leicester's rise through the system was a direct result of money being pumped in by their owner, a foreign billionaire. They were purchased 5 years prior to winning the Premier League and immediately upgraded their sponsorships, facilities, staff, and players. Did money make them win the premier league? No, but it couldn't have happened without it and it had nothing to do with meritocracy or the local community.

Leicester barely survived relegation the year before winning the league. There wasn't an influx in cash between those two polar opposites.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#155

Post by ObserverNeutral » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

This whole thing was a fiasco.

ESL would be participant would have been better off by fighting for the right to negotiate their TV rights individually

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#156

Post by chrisseaton » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

zelos wrote: post #81

rizz0 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Club != Owners. The club is the people, the owners own the shares of the company. Your comment frames the situation as a "League Owner" vs "Club Owner" power struggle. That struggle is real, but it ignores the critical aspect that makes European football appealing: European football is about the clubs, the communities they represent, and cultural rivalry between communities. In essence Man City is Man City because th…

> the communities they represent, and cultural rivalry between communities. This has always confused me: what's the connection between the community and the club? How does Man City 'represent' Manchester?

In the UK most clubs are literally in the middle of a residential community. In many working-class towns they're the literal and emotional centre of the community - visible from all around and one of just a few unchanging social things shared across generations. People are very heavily invested into them.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#157

Post by duncanawoods » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

mandevil wrote: post #121

walshemj wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US had relegation from baseball and football it would improve the sport. At the moment there is no penalty for coming last in the AFL or NFL :-) oh and next year you have first pick of the best new players

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le... The NFL, MLB, and the NBA are all higher revenue sports than the EPL. Even the NHL brings in more revenue than every other sports league than the big 3 North American sports + EPL- 30% more than La Liga or Bundesliga. So if revenues for sports without relegation are so much greater than the revenues for sports with relegation, why would it improve the sp…

EPL is higher if you normalise by population.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#158

Post by frereubu » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

rkangel wrote: post #106

This article presents a simplistic "UK football good, American football bad" viewpoint, but there some aspects to how the NFL is run that are desirable. Primarily here I'm talking about negative feedback. In the Premier League (as well as Formula 1, for example) there is positive feedback that keeps the top teams at the top. Being successful means that you make more money (whether directly through prize money, or ind…

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

If you're relatively new to football, you may not remember what we used to call the "cloggers" in the UK, players who were specifically tasked with going around and injuring opposing team members with violent tackles. (Although if you're a Man U fan you may remember someone called Roy Keane...?) The pendulum has probably swung too far in the opposite direction but, for example, Maradona had his ankle broken in a famously bad tackle by Goikoetxea, a player notorious for doing this, and he wasn't banned for many matches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wqi3z-3VXo (warning - includes slow-motion footage of the ankle break near the beginning). Given a choice between these things, I'll take the diving, and hope for more retrospective punishments for diving in the future.

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#159

Post by slg » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #126

rkangel wrote: post #106

This article presents a simplistic "UK football good, American football bad" viewpoint, but there some aspects to how the NFL is run that are desirable. Primarily here I'm talking about negative feedback. In the Premier League (as well as Formula 1, for example) there is positive feedback that keeps the top teams at the top. Being successful means that you make more money (whether directly through prize money, or ind…

I think that's why the golden era of Man Utd (last 15ish years with Fergie at the helm) wasn't that good for American fans. Yea, it brought in some (me)... but after a while, I found myself not caring about seeing a game if it wasn't against Chelsea or Liverpool. Even then... After 2 years of that... whoopie... Man Utd got another win against, oh look an ant is struggling to carry a cookie crumb. That and diving. Ser…

>They cant figure out how to deal with diving and playing for time

I always find these complaints strange coming from American fans. "Playing for time" is hugely important and mainstream strategy in the NFL. Coaches will be criticized if they don't run the ball enough when they have the lead in the 4th quarter. Meanwhile flopping is hugely common in the NBA. You can just search Youtube for "LeBron flops"[1] for plenty of evidence of the exact same behavior that is always condemned in soccer.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=LeBron+flops

Re: US owners find greed doesn't play well in European soccer

#160

Post by mandevil » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

anthk wrote: post #143

mandevil wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le... The NFL, MLB, and the NBA are all higher revenue sports than the EPL. Even the NHL brings in more revenue than every other sports league than the big 3 North American sports + EPL- 30% more than La Liga or Bundesliga. So if revenues for sports without relegation are so much greater than the revenues for sports with relegation, why would it improve the sp…

Now add up all the major leagues in Europe and sum it up again.

Sure, but let's go by # of teams: The top 58 teams in promotion-relegation system: (EPL+La Liga+Bundesliga- I'll even through in UCL since it's mostly the same core teams driving the attention) 15.5 billion euros The top 62 teams in limited entry leagues: (NFL+NBA) 21.1 billion euros (You can even add in Ligue 1 and Serie A and you STILL don't get to just what the NFL and NBA pull in, setting aside MLB and the NHL. MLS, which does not do promotion/relegation, and is clearly the fifth biggest sport in the US, pulls in ~as much as the EFL.)

In terms of money, which is a rough but reasonable proxy for fan interest, limited entry leagues seem to make more money.