Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones • Hacker News Board

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#11

Post by luckylion » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

3dee wrote: post #7

It's bad that this is happening, but from a developer standpoint it is also very easy to overlook things like this because most APIs are not aware of who the data is for. When an API always returns the `last_seen` field regardless of who is querying the data, it's very easy to make the mistake to present the data to someone who should not see it. That's also one of the reasons I think most CRUD APIs use bad practice…

> But.. a company like Facebook should know better. It seems they just don't care.

I agree 100%. If it was a simple hobby project that somebody had hacked together, I'd agree that it might be easily overlooked. When you have thousands of people supposedly working on making privacy a priority etc: not so much.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#12

Post by CiTyBear » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

computator wrote: post #5

> Privacy setting for Last Seen: Set by default to Everyone and nobody configures it. It surprised me that only 10% of his random (French) sample is active daily (179/1751=10%). In my contacts, I do see people who have accounts but haven't used it in weeks, but it's not the norm. However, I see lots of people in my contacts who show no info for Last Seen. Is he underestimating how often people configure the privacy s…

His script start from the bottom of 06 XX XX XX XX (french mobile number) and increases. This is not the most efficient way to have working/active numbers.

As he said, starting with 06 numbers are saturated by now and we opened 07 XX... numbers. Thus, 07 numbers are more likely to be fresher et more used by "younger" people. While first 06 could be more used by professional and "older" people

As I said in a previous comments, older generation do not use WhatsApp very much as we had unlimited text message before getting internet on our phones (before iPhone 1). Before Covid, my parents did not use WhatsApp at all while texting daily. They use it now to video call during curfew

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#13

Post by throw_away789 » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #11

3dee wrote: post #7

It's bad that this is happening, but from a developer standpoint it is also very easy to overlook things like this because most APIs are not aware of who the data is for. When an API always returns the `last_seen` field regardless of who is querying the data, it's very easy to make the mistake to present the data to someone who should not see it. That's also one of the reasons I think most CRUD APIs use bad practice…

> But.. a company like Facebook should know better. It seems they just don't care. I agree 100%. If it was a simple hobby project that somebody had hacked together, I'd agree that it might be easily overlooked. When you have thousands of people supposedly working on making privacy a priority etc: not so much.

I think its deliberately kept open. There are 100s of apps in play store that can help in predicting if 2 people in your contacts are in conversation.

People like keeping watch on others and Facebook is exploiting that.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#14

Post by puttycat » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

I've been using WhatsApp for years, reluctantly since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country.

I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. It is ridiculously invasive and cannot ever be turned off or even hidden from specific contacts. This is a SMS client, not a chat client, and revealing a user's online status is highly problematic both socially and security-wise. I can't help but wonder how many lives this feature has ruined.

(I am talking specifically about the "online" indication, not the "last seen" information, which is also invasive but can be turned off).

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#15

Post by throw_away789 » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

puttycat wrote: post #14

I've been using WhatsApp for years, reluctantly since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. It is ridiculously invasive and cannot ever be turned off or even hidden from specific contacts. This is a SMS client, not a chat client, and revealing a user's online status is highly problematic both socially and security-wise. I can't help but wonder how m…

> I can't help but wonder how many lives this feature has ruined.

and relationships

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#16

Post by hudixt » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

I had done same thing around this in 2019. This doesn't stop at this.

There were quite correlation that I was able to find with basic setup

The results can be quite horrifying as you can predict plethora of things.

- When is someone sleeping.

- When they're working,etc.

- If two person are talking to each other in closed group.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#17

Post by seszett » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

jorislacance wrote: post #10

CiTyBear wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in France, where text messages were free (unlimited with your subscription) long ago before we had internet on our smartphone. Thus people use text message a lot and did use WhatsApp only to contact people outside from France

Not in France actually, we mainly use WhatsApp as a main message app; nobody uses SMS nowadays

Well I do use SMS, as well as my friends and family in France.

I use WhatsApp with Belgians (I live in Belgium) because SMS's are not free for them, and also for sharing photos because MMS is a mess.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#18

Post by bellyfullofbac » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

sdevonoes wrote: post #3

geek_at wrote: post #2

I love these short write-ups of security issues of things the company in charge does not think is a problem. I remember that the facebook messenger was leaking the same kind of data and facebook said it's not a bug and didn't change it.

Why is this a "security" issue? People know that other people can see their "last seen" date, but usually they don't care so they left it. Hell, I leave it public as well. I couldn't care less about this tiny details. Now, if you tell me that by leaving public my "last seen" date, people can get more data about me (e.g., with whom I talk to), well then yes, I would call that a security issue.

> if [...] people can get more data about me (e.g., with whom I talk to) [...]

It's quite possible, at least among mutual friends. If you have 2 people you know, who are also friends with each other, who have high correlation of online times, then, it's a signal that they could be talking with each other.

It's also amusing (insert a better verb...) that Facebook probably knows who's dating who based on frequency of messages on Messenger/WhatsApp/Instagram, location data ("It's the 3rd Friday night that their phones are close to each other in some venue"), and if they're on the same WiFi (A few hours later: "Well, it's 1AM, and after an hour of inactivity, James' phone is now connected to Jenny's WiFi, they did have their third date earlier...")

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#19

Post by breakfastduck » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

puttycat wrote: post #14

I've been using WhatsApp for years, reluctantly since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. It is ridiculously invasive and cannot ever be turned off or even hidden from specific contacts. This is a SMS client, not a chat client, and revealing a user's online status is highly problematic both socially and security-wise. I can't help but wonder how m…

It does nothing but serve to increase paranoia that someone is actively being ignored.

Re: Tracking the WhatsApp habits of random smartphones

#20

Post by dec0dedab0de » Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

puttycat wrote: post #14

I've been using WhatsApp for years, reluctantly since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. It is ridiculously invasive and cannot ever be turned off or even hidden from specific contacts. This is a SMS client, not a chat client, and revealing a user's online status is highly problematic both socially and security-wise. I can't help but wonder how m…

I only used WhatsApp for a year or so to talk to a specific person, but it definitely felt like a chat client to me. My general impression is that it is a lesser version of AIM but using phone numbers as logins. To be fair, I think of all instant messaging apps as lesser versions of AIM, and I still can't believe AOL dropped the ball so hard on that.

I don't remember the online indication, is that only when you're actively using the app? or just if the app is open on your phone? I'm trying to think of a situation where either could ruin someones life but I'm struggling. Maybe if you're trying to avoid someone important to you, but need to talk to someone else on whats app? Could you give an example of what you were thinking?