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Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

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Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#91

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

koonsolo wrote: post #73
baybal2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway -- you can help! The best way to help them now is to send arms, but that if of course if you can get them through the border. Belarus knows that they can't trust army drafted from regular men, and that's why the army was sent off to seal the borders, while the special police monsters are let to keep doing their atrocities inside cities. The West is also unwittingly facilitates this by keeping shutting down a…

So you give arms to a bunch of people, they kill a bunch of people, and then you hope that the leader that arises from all this blooshed is better than Lukashenko? Good luck.

context matters a lot.

the Belarusian security forces are not as loyal to the Lukashenko regime as you think. They are all part of the same social fabric, they have mothers, brothers sisters who are among the population. The oppositions successful unmasking of them has been a massive spanner in the strategy of Lukashenko oppression.

What they are missing is being able to defend themselves from Wagner group mercenaries who have absolutely no such ties and couldn't care about who they kill. Sending mercenaries and arms with a mission to take out the Lukashenko regime while fighting the Russians who are infiltrating the security forces would be the only strategy.

Helping in other ways (from the comfort of an arm chair) is possible but it means cracking down on off-shore banking and money laundering (much of it takes place in Europe & the US. Good luck.

That's pretty much how this has been working throughout the history of the human race.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#92

Post by superfist »

baybal2 wrote: post #37
iyn wrote: post #15

I've been following the situation in Belarus since last August and it's really terrible. I admire how so many brave people look death in the eye and still fight for freedom. I have friends there and this allowed me to understand that there's so much potential in Belarus -- there are so many talented, intelligent people getting by in this adversarial environment. So sad to see how Lukashenko's kleptocracy regime waste…

> Anyway -- you can help! The best way to help them now is to send arms, but that if of course if you can get them through the border. Belarus knows that they can't trust army drafted from regular men, and that's why the army was sent off to seal the borders, while the special police monsters are let to keep doing their atrocities inside cities. The West is also unwittingly facilitates this by keeping shutting down a…

First of all can you provide any credible sources that will back your claims regarding Poland and its attempts to smuggle weapons? This sound like pure lie to me. Second thing: "The best way to help them now is to send arms" - this sounds like Russian provocation. Sending weapon to Belarus will only justify Russian miliary opperations in this country. So either you don't know what are you saying or you are instigator.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#93

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

baq wrote: post #66
baybal2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you really think having a civil war right around the corner, practically on the other side of the fence, is something any country wants to have? If you don't want a civil war on the other side of the fence, go and win it. With current discord in the Belorussian armed forces, double digit desertion rate, broken command chain, even the smallest NATO armies can easily plough though them. Your bigger problem will be th…

i'm sure all Belarusans would love to have two foreign armies marching through their homeland, both with words of liberation on their standards.

this argument is akin to somebody just having kidnapped my family while despite me knowing where the kidnappers live being told I should not gun up but "come up with a peaceful plan" (perhaps hit the kidnappers with a leaflet campaign).

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#94

Post by Jkae80_ »

There are rumours that Belarus will become part of Russia shortly. Putin just said that the West/United States crossed the line and tried to murder Lukanseko. Upheaval is coming https://twitter.com/ivan8848/status/1384815408495140865 So much about the techcrunch article

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#95

Post by ceilingcorner »

koonsolo wrote: post #80
ceilingcorner wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably. Have you ever read about the West’s involvement with regime change? Once, just once, can we stop and realize that being world policeman isn’t always a good move?

Europe isn't the world policeman. Most neighboring countries want to join EU for good reason. In Ukraines case, do you really think they don't want to become more like any EU country? I know plenty of people from Lviv. That 'coup' was not staged by 'the west', but was a force within their own population that want a better standard of life. So please don't compare US involvement in any Middle east country to the EU an…

Just because a country wants to join the EU doesn’t mean the EU should send weapons and foment a civil war there. It is scary and absurd that this needs to be said, yet here we are. Arguing for starting a civil war because of “freedom.” Where have we heard this before?

Lviv/Western Ukraine is also very anti-Russia and has been for a long time (pre-WW2). Ukraine is a very divided country and there is more than one opinion on what to do. If each region voted independently, you’d probably see Ukraine split into two states, one aligning with the EU and the other with Russia.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#96

Post by inglor_cz »

liaukovv wrote: post #11
anovikov wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pipe dream. If someone who isn't a Putin handpicked puppet gets elected, country will be taken over. Face reality: even the Belarusian KGB people are trained in Moscow (they don't have an academy of their own, just kept things the way they were in Soviet times). It's just a facade of independence. Whatever small bits of real independence exist, are only there of Lukashenka's personal ambitions to "own" the…

Cynicism and learned helplessness is the environment in which dictators thrive. You have to fight it.

To make a point from a different perspective: some environments / countries / regions are so FUBARed by decades of bad governance that emigration is a much, much easier way out than trying to change the system from within and possibly risking prison, beating to death, serious consequences for your family etc. Cynicism and learned helplessness are just a description of what people actually live in there.

Of course, then you have zombie regimes holding to power forever, because people who would challenge them most effectively are outside the country. Iran, Russia etc.

Navalny returned to Russia precisely because he did not want to be seen as yet another emigree who utters advice from abroad. He will pay with his life for that courage and other people will think twice before becoming the next anti-regime icons.

Authoritarian states are very good at intimidating people. What they cannot usually control is the economy, that is a major weakness in their armor. That is one of the reason why China concentrates so much on economic development.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#97

Post by caskstrength »

dfadsadsf wrote: post #86
caskstrength wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Ukraine - ... > All those countries were devastated by the "democratization". I'm not sure what you mean by "devastated". Software development jobs market is flourishing and my friends from other industries are not doing that bad either. Are you watching/reading Russian news sources by any chance?

Software development market in Ukraine is flourishing because its completely decoupled from local economy with most people working in outsourcing companies. Hardly definition of success. Country is in the middle of frozen civil war. GDP per person in Ukraine is still below 2013 and is half of GDP per person in Belarus. Change in government need to come from within - not imposed by outsiders. Very few cases when revol…

> Software development market in Ukraine is flourishing because its completely decoupled from local economy with most people working in outsourcing companies. Hardly definition of success.

I'm not working for outsourcing company.

> Country is in the middle of frozen civil war. GDP per person in Ukraine is still below 2013 and is half of GDP per person in Belarus.

So why do you think people have not elected some pro-Russian politician? Or asked Yanukovich to come back so we could all go back to glorious-high-GDP-2013 times? In fact, it seems that significant part of population of Belarus (with their high GDP and all) are starting to see drawbacks in that arrangement instead. Really makes you think, huh?

> Change in government need to come from within - not imposed by outsiders. Very few cases when revolution/regime change led to even ok outcome.

This is very presumptuous from your side. I remember a lot of people going each evening after day of coding in cushy software company office to participate in revolution in 2014, risking their freedom and life. In fact, "People in internet say revolution is sponsored by CIA, but I'm still waiting for my paycheck!" was a common joke back at those days, so please spare me your condescension.

>Besides problem with living in middle income soft authoritarian countries is mostly middle income and not authoritarian part. That’s the reason there is so much focus on corruption in protests - people just want more benefits/free money and assume that all money are stolen by corrupt government when in reality there is just not that much money in the country. Obviously regime change does not reduce corruption nor expand size of economy so all recent revolutions just made situation worse for common people.

Revolution of Dignity started as a reaction to Yanukovich backpedaling on association agreement with the European Union under Russian pressure. You might want to educate yourself on the subject before patronizing us stupid poor people from "soft authoritarian countries".

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#98

Post by ceilingcorner »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #78
baq wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you really think having a civil war right around the corner, practically on the other side of the fence, is something any country wants to have? not to mention having an armed rebellion means putin's intervention is guaranteed and then belarus just becomes another federal district.

that's a bad-faith argument, it should instead be: Do you really want to allow systematic killing of the opposition by current un-elected criminals holding on to power. Putin's intervention is not some kind of "hypothetical future danger or milestone in theoretic escalation" but has been fact since 1998. Europe isn't going to do anything except sending their thoughts and prayers and direct intervention by the US is u…

No, starting a civil war is exactly the wrong thing to do if you want to protect the civilian population.

Re: Belarusian regime’s thugs shut down Imaguru, the country’s key startup hub

#99

Post by dandanua »

ohashi wrote: post #59
esperent wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> techcrunch is a mouthpiece of the US based interests. I haven't heard this before, where are you getting this claim from?

From his bot master probably

Nah, their neural network is trained to produce some random sh*t that sound blamable and vicious. Didn't you heard the stories about crucified boy by Ukrainian army in Donbass? Russian state TV translate this kind of madness 24/7 for years now. The war is imminent, it's just a matter of time. It's impossible to dissipate that hate peacefully.

Also, all Russian society is living in a hateful state, towards many things (their own government, immigrants, West, etc.). This energy will be used for destruction, one way or another, unfortunately.

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