I think it’s important to think of consciousness as a spectrum. Having studied artificial life, the conclusion I came to is that something needs to be situated and have some degree of nervous system to be conscious. A rock is not concious, but a tree might be. A fly is less concious than a dog. A robot may be concious if it has enough sensors to react and significantly change it’s behavior due to processing (rather t…
The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
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Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#12I got paywalled, can someone share an archive or outline link?
https://outline.com/8z79aN though the article isn't really anything more than a description of panpsychism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panpsychism#Arguments_in_favor... and the Arguments Against section below that are basically a better version of the article
So this feels like a useless definition. Like the computational power of something is a product of it's mass. It's much more than that.
Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#13Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#14A 10,000 ft view of the human brain includes: memory, emotional state, sensory input, ability to monitor and control internal processes including memory and emotion, motor control, and a logical system to tie these together as a system that attempts to achieve internal goals guided by memory and emotional state. Other mammalian and animal brains generally are presumably very similar.
What I don't understand is the need to invoke a je ne sais quoi -- a soul, quantum mechanics, whatever pseudo-matter the article is talking about -- to explain consciousness. Why should the above processes themselves not be sufficient to give rise to what we experience as consciousness, as an emergent phenomenon? It's not in everything, but it's in everything that has more-or-less all the pieces above. We could even make a crude consciousness, with today's technology.
It's like if, in trying to understand the essence of language, after analyzing lexical and grammatical structure and successfully describing all the visible parts of a language, linguists just shrugged and said "well this is how English works but don't know what makes it a language... there must be something invisible that is key". Well no, it turns out it is just the parts we can see and describe that are sufficient. We can even make one by putting those parts together (Esperanto... despite some linguists who do -- bizarrely, to me -- claim it lacks a "je ne sais quoi"...) and it acts just like a real "language".
I guess what's tricky is, unlike language, there's no way to "inhabit" an artificial consciousness to try it out and see if it really is "real". Many humans don't believe animals are conscious despite overwhelming biological and behavioral similarities. What sort of test of an artificial consciousness would not be hand-waved away as merely a simulacrum? One might even say the only falsifiable definition of a conscious entity -- other humans included -- is whether it has similar enough brain-parts as yourself.
Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#15What defines an object? If everything is just a sea of atoms where precisely is that boundary that says "this is a rock, and it as a whole is conscious". If I take a chip off that rock, do we now have two distinct conscious entities?
If I cold weld two huge pieces of steel together so they fuse at an atomic level, did I just turn two independent slabs of steel into one larger conscious entity? When does it become one entity? When the first atom between the two is fused together, or does it become "more" conscious as I continue to weld it together?
The rabbit hole goes deep with the concept of consciousness.
Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#16Seems they're playing fast and loose with the word "credibility".
Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#17Also, I'd take any book suggestions, I just finished consciousness explained and currently reading on consciousness. It's hard to find good books
Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#18I don't think there's any need to invoke as "magical" an idea as consciousness being a "fundamental property of matter" to reach the conclusion that many more things than we think are conscious. A 10,000 ft view of the human brain includes: memory, emotional state, sensory input, ability to monitor and control internal processes including memory and emotion, motor control, and a logical system to tie these together a…
Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#19I don't think there's any need to invoke as "magical" an idea as consciousness being a "fundamental property of matter" to reach the conclusion that many more things than we think are conscious. A 10,000 ft view of the human brain includes: memory, emotional state, sensory input, ability to monitor and control internal processes including memory and emotion, motor control, and a logical system to tie these together a…
Because consciousness, my experience of it at least, is a fundamentally different type of stuff to anything that constitutes a brain. It's certainly possible to arrange brain-stuff (or silicon chips) to enact motor control and logic. But the jump from that to qualia, to there being something that it is like to be that brain-stuff, is certainly nontrivial. The analogy that occurs to me is that you're assembling a really complex jigsaw puzzle and expecting it to fly.
I agree that it's basically impossible to test an artificial consciousness to distinguish it from a Philsophical Zombie... but to me that's a limitation with the scientific method, not with the concept of consciousness, given that "I am conscious" is the thing I am most certain of in the world (given my experience of it).
I'm a materialist and on balance I don't think there is anything supernatural about consciousness. But that's not an easy position to hold.
Re: The idea that everything is conscious is gaining academic credibility (2018)
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://outline.com/8z79aN though the article isn't really anything more than a description of panpsychism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panpsychism#Arguments_in_favor... and the Arguments Against section below that are basically a better version of the article
So consciousness is some kind of messy combination of matter, responding to inputs, to connections between particles. This feels wholly inadequate. My human consciousness is reduced when I get shot in the head but the particles are still there, so think about when my brain deteriorates, when I die. If you put my matter into a container all that matter is still there but I'm no longer able to have human consciousness…
Consciousness here is downgraded to a very "simple form", to more fundamental components that all matter possess in a way or another. So it does not mean that a rock is sentient like your mind is. It's more like saying, ie, that quantum entanglement could be a component of consciousness. A rock could interact with quantum entanglement, therefore it would be plausible that a rock could have a tremendously primitive form of consciousness.