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Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

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Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#21

Post by SigmundA »

tyingq wrote: post #6

This did boil down to where the problem mostly wasn't with the supply, right? That is, the problem was with lead pipes from the water meter to the houses/apartments? Not excusing everything the city did wrong, but I can see why that would have complicated everything and made resolution such a long process.

My understanding is the lead pipes over many many years had an internal coating of biofilm and minerals that happens in all plumbing systems. The biofilm and mineral coating protected the water from lead contamination, it created a liner so to speak.

Then Flint decided to save money by changing water sources from Lake Huron to the Flint river which changed many properties of the water including ph. This relatively abrupt change caused the biofilm and mineral coating to weaken and expose the lead of the pipes to the water.

So are lead pipes at fault or the sudden change in water chemistry? Water chemistry changes are well know to cause these issues, the water quality chemist in most jurisdictions will be aware of the potential issues, not sure if they were ignored.

IMO the pipes should have been changed out long ago, but that doesn't absolve the decision makers from the issues caused by changing water sources to save money without consideration for the side effects.

Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#23

Post by omegaworks »

determinateproc wrote: post #8

How common is the use of water purifiers in the West? Here in India, in my observation, most middle class and above families own a household water filter of some sort (electrical or otherwise) and routinely fill up bottles for drinking purposes. Drinking straight from the tap is something very uncommon.

San Francisco gets its water from Hetch Hetchy, it follows an almost entirely pristine granite pathway from the reservoir to the city. Moved here from Chicago, a city directly abutting the largest freshwater lakes in the world.

I drink directly from the tap, and grew up trusting my access to water. Now, I'm aware that not everyone has that privilege and our government, increasingly neoliberal and enamored with privatization and fracking, has allowed the public freshwater infrastructure to degrade in various parts of the country that didn't previously have problems with their tap water.

It's one of the first questions I ask when I visit someone else now. It's probably the greatest modern civilizational decline.

Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#24

Post by ceejayoz »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #22

I read that the ancient Romans also used lead pipes. They too knew it had horrific health effects, and they used it anyway: lead is cheap, and the government was corrupt. Plus ça change...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumbing#Water_pipes

> Despite the Romans' common use of lead pipes, their aqueducts rarely poisoned people. Unlike other parts of the world where lead pipes cause poisoning, the Roman water had so much calcium in it that a layer of plaque prevented the water contacting the lead itself. What often causes confusion is the large amount of evidence of widespread lead poisoning, particularly amongst those who would have had easy access to piped water, an unfortunate result of lead being used in cookware and as an additive to processed food and drink (for example as a preservative in wine).

Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#25

Post by lotsofpulp »

determinateproc wrote: post #8

How common is the use of water purifiers in the West? Here in India, in my observation, most middle class and above families own a household water filter of some sort (electrical or otherwise) and routinely fill up bottles for drinking purposes. Drinking straight from the tap is something very uncommon.

In the Northeast US and west coast of US, I’ve never used a water purifier.

Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#26

Post by dudeinjapan »

determinateproc wrote: post #8

How common is the use of water purifiers in the West? Here in India, in my observation, most middle class and above families own a household water filter of some sort (electrical or otherwise) and routinely fill up bottles for drinking purposes. Drinking straight from the tap is something very uncommon.

The most well-known filter brand in the US is Brita which is a pitcher you buy with a replaceable filter. Costs around $20 per filter which last "2-6 months". Probably an order of magnitude more expensive than what you pay in India. It's definitely as a very middle-class thing in US; and to the extent it removes minerals and flouride from the water its arguably detrimental (tap water is generally trusted to be safe.)

Oddly, I recall that the "workaround" solution being to the Flint crisis was to ship in tons of bottled water. Cheap filters, if they remove lead and bacteria fully, would seem like a much more cost effective way.

Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#27

Post by maxerickson »

bluedino wrote: post #20
determinateproc wrote: post #8

How common is the use of water purifiers in the West? Here in India, in my observation, most middle class and above families own a household water filter of some sort (electrical or otherwise) and routinely fill up bottles for drinking purposes. Drinking straight from the tap is something very uncommon.

In Michigan drinking from the tap is pretty universal, unless you live in a rural area with a well. Being in the middle of a couple large freshwater lakes gives you delicious water. That said, water purification is big business. People have filtered water pitchers (think Brita) or large units that supply the whole house (Culligan)

Depends on the well also. Nestle has a huge bottling plant in Evart that uses well water.

Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#28

Post by bluedino »

maxerickson wrote: post #27
bluedino wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Michigan drinking from the tap is pretty universal, unless you live in a rural area with a well. Being in the middle of a couple large freshwater lakes gives you delicious water. That said, water purification is big business. People have filtered water pitchers (think Brita) or large units that supply the whole house (Culligan)

Depends on the well also. Nestle has a huge bottling plant in Evart that uses well water.

Of course. Many wells have quality water while some will turn your clothes and appliances orange

Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#29

Post by dudeinjapan »

ceejayoz wrote: post #24
dudeinjapan wrote: post #22

I read that the ancient Romans also used lead pipes. They too knew it had horrific health effects, and they used it anyway: lead is cheap, and the government was corrupt. Plus ça change...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumbing#Water_pipes > Despite the Romans' common use of lead pipes, their aqueducts rarely poisoned people. Unlike other parts of the world where lead pipes cause poisoning, the Roman water had so much calcium in it that a layer of plaque prevented the water contacting the lead itself. What often causes confusion is the large amount of evidence of widespread lead poisoning, particularly…

Ah didn't know this! I think the lead workers did still suffer exposure effects; they roughly knew something was up with lead.

Re: Water crisis took toll on Flint adults’ physical, mental health

#30

Post by determinateproc »

emptyfile wrote: post #17
determinateproc wrote: post #8

How common is the use of water purifiers in the West? Here in India, in my observation, most middle class and above families own a household water filter of some sort (electrical or otherwise) and routinely fill up bottles for drinking purposes. Drinking straight from the tap is something very uncommon.

I'm not sure what the West is, but I live in eastern europe and I have no idea what an electric purifier would even look like. Someone might order bottled water at a restaurant, but I'm pretty sure everyone drinks tap at home. From what I've seen Germans seems pretty suspicious of their tap water(or maybe just hard water?) and use brita filters a lot. There is no actual health benefit or harm avoidance for using them…

> I have no idea what an electric purifier would even look like

Here are some of the popular brands that you can get over here:

https://www.eurekaforbes.com/water-purifiers/by-category/aqu...

https://www.kent.co.in/

These claim to use RO, UV etc. for purifying the water. I am kind of surprised that the Amazon USA listings for water purifiers return several fad-ish "gadget" things first, instead of the above.

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