How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#31

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #26

noxer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of "...in fact its de facto zero if you aren't a criminal/drug abuser and comply with police orders." did you not read? Also anecdotal evidence of a bad cop interaction is not a valid argument. There are thousands of interaction that happen every day. The fact that every once in a wile a bad interaction makes the news doesn't pose any information about the actually risk. Someone drunk driving into you and…

> And guess what It would happen even more without police making thousands of interactions. This claim is dubious — there are studies showing both a modest decrease [1][2] and no correlation [3] in the drunk driving crash rate when arrests are increased. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4254192/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK217455/ [3] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6221143_Poli…

I didn't say increase or decrease. I said "...without police making thousands of interactions" If you question the negative effect that would have on drunk driving accidents, I accept that its solely based on common sense and no studies were conducted to proof it.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#32

Post by dctoedt » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

noxer wrote: post #10

dctoedt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing wrong with recording (where legal) Except that there are plenty of examples of a cop going after a bystander who's recording the cop's interaction with someone because the cop doesn't want it recorded — and the cop tells the bystander something like "you're obstructing a police matter," which is ... not correct.

I case you could not figure it out I expressed favor to record police interaction where legal. Form all parties (ordinary people but also cops themself should). There was absolutely no talk about bystander but for the sake of your invalid argument I agree they should also record if possible. The "..."you're obstructing a police matter," which is ... not correct. " Is a pointless generalized statement that is therefor…

You're conflating different situations; I hope it's unintentional on your part and not a deliberate effort to hijack the narrative to terms you prefer.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#33

Post by jakelazaroff » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

noxer wrote: post #30

nickserv wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, obviously, that any of those events could have rapidly ended up with me dead. For doing absolutely nothing wrong. Do you really enjoy living in a country where police have power of life and death over you and your loved ones? And what constitutes a criminal? Is speeding an executable offense for you? What about shoplifting? Selling weed? I'm curious.

>...could have rapidly ended up with me dead. Like if you started to shoot? What exactly could have turned this around without invalidating the "For doing absolutely nothing wrong." Its kind silly statement its like "I almost got pulled over for doing absolutely nothing, imagine If I were speeding, they would have stooped me for sure, I was lucky." >And what constitutes a criminal? Is speeding an executable offense f…

How is this an acceptable status quo? The entire point of due process is to protect individuals from the state… but when the state violates that protection, people bend over backwards to exculpate it. "Oh they didn't comply, well what do you expect." I expect the police to not violate my rights. They are given very narrowly defined powers in the course of their duties, and just because they routinely abuse those powers without consequence doesn't mean that we should be okay with it.

Meanwhile, there is endless discourse over whether accusations of racism or sexual harassment should result in personal or professional repercussions. As if we should apply a criminal burden of proof before firing someone from a job, but it's okay for a cop to physically harm someone if they get scared.

This is seriously wrong.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#34

Post by fsociety » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #17

jariel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being pulled over is incredibly safe, there's almost zero chance of being shot for people who aren't antagonizing. Policing in America is overly assertive, but remember that almost 1/2 the people they pull over have guns, it's dangerous for them as well creating a bad kind of civil standoff. While more police training and oversight is necessary, it won't materially change the dynamic in any kind of statistically cons…

> almost 1/2 the people they pull over have guns I sincerely doubt it. Do you have a source? edit Roughly a third of Americans own a gun, [0] so the proportion with guns in their cars is almost certainly far less than that. [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-hou...

That link says 40% say they own a gun. Regardless, you want to ask how many people who are pulled over have guns in their car. Potentially it is higher because they were (in most cases) speeding, driving illegally, or license plate is connected to previous crimes.

Then you should ask, if 10% of traffic stops result in guns being found what effect does that on police officers. What if it is 25%? 50%?

I’m not saying it’s one way or another, but refuting your claim that it is certainly less than 50%, and suggesting that even if it is it has an effect on the officer.

I’m not sure what the solution is here, past holding cops who harm innocent people accountable.. but that doesn’t address the lack of safety the officer faces.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#35

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

dctoedt wrote: post #32

noxer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I case you could not figure it out I expressed favor to record police interaction where legal. Form all parties (ordinary people but also cops themself should). There was absolutely no talk about bystander but for the sake of your invalid argument I agree they should also record if possible. The "..."you're obstructing a police matter," which is ... not correct. " Is a pointless generalized statement that is therefor…

You're conflating different situations; I hope it's unintentional on your part and not a deliberate effort to hijack the narrative to terms you prefer.

There was no situation given just a general statement that if police says "you're obstructing a police matter" that this would be a lie.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#36

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

davidgould wrote: post #29

dctoedt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing wrong with recording (where legal) Except that there are plenty of examples of a cop going after a bystander who's recording the cop's interaction with someone because the cop doesn't want it recorded — and the cop tells the bystander something like "you're obstructing a police matter," which is ... not correct.

Or even assaulting and/or arresting the bystander filming.

Do you know what assaulting means? An arrest inst assaulting anyone. Also its not for filming but for not following orders which is exactly what cops are paid do do. If you dont want to get arrested follow the order they give you.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#37

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

fsociety wrote: post #34

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> almost 1/2 the people they pull over have guns I sincerely doubt it. Do you have a source? edit Roughly a third of Americans own a gun, [0] so the proportion with guns in their cars is almost certainly far less than that. [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-hou... That link says 40% say they own a gun. Regardless, you want to ask how many people who are pulled over have guns in their car. Potentially it is higher because they were (in most cases) speeding, driving illegally, or license plate is connected to previous crimes. Then you should ask, if 10% of traffic stops result in guns being found what effect does th…

[deleted]

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#38

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #33

noxer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...could have rapidly ended up with me dead. Like if you started to shoot? What exactly could have turned this around without invalidating the "For doing absolutely nothing wrong." Its kind silly statement its like "I almost got pulled over for doing absolutely nothing, imagine If I were speeding, they would have stooped me for sure, I was lucky." >And what constitutes a criminal? Is speeding an executable offense f…

How is this an acceptable status quo? The entire point of due process is to protect individuals from the state… but when the state violates that protection, people bend over backwards to exculpate it. "Oh they didn't comply, well what do you expect." I expect the police to not violate my rights. They are given very narrowly defined powers in the course of their duties, and just because they routinely abuse those powe…

>I expect the police to not violate my rights.

Sure, we all do but if they violate your rights anyway, it does not give you the right to resist, ignore orders or even defend yourself... yes that a hard one to swallow for many people egos but that's how it is.

If there would be a way around this problem I'm sure we would have found out. But you just can't fight someone with a state given authority/power who most likely has the monopoly on force in the given situation. You have to take the legal way and to get a chance to do this you better comply with orders. Whether or not your rights where violated is decided by a judge not by arguing with a cop.

>and just because they routinely abuse those powers without consequence doesn't mean that we should be okay with it.

I doubt this is as routinely as people think it is and that there are no consequences but either way, whats your proposed solution? Do you think defunding the police would help? Or should people just open fire if a cop is abusing his power? I'm sure you can see that this would go nowhere. Complying isn't an option its the only option and the law clearly states that you have to comply. Then fight back the legal way if you can and impose the desired consequences on bad cops. Which BTW you cant do if you resisted even if you rights were violated, the moment you violate your duty the legal way will not favor you.

Everyone should act like they would want their loved ones to act if they have a police encounter.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#39

Post by throwaway314273 » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

nickserv wrote: post #7

Incredibly sad that this sort of thing is required. Obviously nobody enjoys getting pulled over, but you should be fearing a fine, not getting beat up or killed.

It's not. It's incredibly rare for the police to kill someone who is unarmed and not resisting/fighting with them. The police could certainly improve to be less violent, but this is not something that the average person will ever have to deal with.

Rather than learn how to use Siri, just don't carry a gun around and don't fight with the police if they try to arrest you. This may not be fair and you may not like it, but from a practical standpoint, if your goal is not to be killed by the police, it's fairly simple.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#40

Post by jakelazaroff » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

noxer wrote: post #38

jakelazaroff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this an acceptable status quo? The entire point of due process is to protect individuals from the state… but when the state violates that protection, people bend over backwards to exculpate it. "Oh they didn't comply, well what do you expect." I expect the police to not violate my rights. They are given very narrowly defined powers in the course of their duties, and just because they routinely abuse those powe…

>I expect the police to not violate my rights. Sure, we all do but if they violate your rights anyway, it does not give you the right to resist, ignore orders or even defend yourself... yes that a hard one to swallow for many people egos but that's how it is. If there would be a way around this problem I'm sure we would have found out. But you just can't fight someone with a state given authority/power who most likel…

I think there are actually a lot of palliative measures: stop giving police surplus military equipment, end qualified immunity, pay misconduct settlements from police pensions, ban police unions, decriminalize drugs and prostitution.

But frankly, I don’t think anything short of defunding is likely to work. Like you said, the root of the problem is that police have a monopoly on force, so the only solution is to drastically reduce the cases in which that imbalance exists. The US spends more money on policing than literally every country other than China spends on their military [1], so it’s prima facie ridiculous to me that we can’t significantly cut back our police force.

[1] https://twitter.com/pplscitycouncil/status/13830718474790789...