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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#861
post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. don't terminate sentences with .. or ... Why not? 'Do you prefer C or Rust?' 'Would you like paper or plastic?' Perhaps I misunderstand.

Not sure where you got the question marks from, but he's talking about ellipses (two or three periods in a row, like '...'). It's actually a stylistic choice and there's nothing inherently wrong with using it, but it is generally considered unprofessional and overuse is extremely annoying for readers.

I misunderstood what the GGP was referring to. As far as I know, ending a sentence with ellipses is considered improper English except for some special cases.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentle tip: writing "shouldn't of" instead "shouldn't have" is one of those critical writing misteaks one should never make when communicating with educated people. Some others worth special effort to do correctly: 1. their there they're 2. its it's 3. your you're A couple other writing tips: 1. don't terminate sentences with .. or ... 2. "bosses" is plural, I think you meant "boss's" for the possessive I know it sou…

The irony of correcting others when you yourself have several writing mistakes.

Your right... I'm checking to see if he accidently out any words... two bad, I didn't notice any. (also... whoosh!)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a really tough lesson to learn but this is absolutely true: It is not enough to be right, you must also have credibility. You usually have to accept other people being wrong about things you're right about in order to build credibility.

> You usually have to accept other people being wrong about things you're right about in order to build credibility. I don’t think this is the correct way to look at it. Rather than accepting other people being wrong, you should be very open to the possibility that it’s you who is wrong. Always doubt your own assumptions, and be willing to change your stance when new information comes to light.

I think my quote would be better if it said "often" or "sometimes" instead of "usually". But no, I disagree with your point here, I mean, that's true too, but it's not what I was talking about. I'm saying that in order to build up a lot of credibility, you have to be right, tell people the right thing, but actually not fight them when they disagree and go a different way. If you were actually right and they were actually wrong, they will know and remember and trust you more in the future. Doing variations of this for a long time in view of a lot of people is one of the places credibility comes from. But you actually do need to pick fewer battles and let more wrong decisions go, even when you are actually right. That's part of the lesson that has to be learned when you don't have the power. It isn't enough to be right, you have to be trusted by the people who make decisions, and for that you have to build credibility.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#864
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not listen to any advice on HN. I have a pretty solid hiring strategy, but it got downvoted to hell because HN skews to people without much real world experience. They can only think of tech products to sell to other tech companies. (I'm a CTO, and I've raised seed money for two different products. Our market is small -- under 200MM ARR -- but our nearest competitor starts at $30k per year and their product i…

> Honestly, I don't know why anyone wants to work for Google anyways. I can tell you why - www.levels.fyi Google is quite literally one of the most well-known and powerful tech companies in the world - I assume it's not that hard to think people who work in tech would want to associate with an organization int hat position. --- I don't understand your basis of judging the skills of their engineers either. You had one…

Another good reason I don't have any respect for Google:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-used-d...

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#865
You've gotten a lot of advice and there is something I'll reiterate. Don't aim so high. I eventually got to the level of being pursued by FAANGs, but it took many years of working at a "boring" software company and just gaining skills. Also, on your resume try to make it outcome focused. Don't say what you did, say what the impact was. Everybody "knows" c++, docker, , but what was the impact of what you did? Why do you know those things in the first place? That helps a lot when just sending resumes around and not having a connection. Also, you are studying all these algorithm text books, but first of all lots of companies do not go beyond simple graph theory questions. That was my experience at Apple (though Apple is very different from those other companies). If you are going for a specialized role like embedded systems or a backend software network engineer, the focus will be on things like "how does an OS scheduler work" not, "solve a dynamic memory problem". Also truly understanding the language you choose to program in is very important. It becomes immediately obvious when people don't really understand their tools, especially if they choose C++ (that's been my experience at least). You're over optimizing on the algorithms and not focusing on just software engineering. I am extrapolating this from what you said in the first paragraph.

Also, something that hasn't been really stated (and I feel weird saying this), but try to be funny (self deprecating is the safest way to go) and easy to talk to in an interview. Even though we all try to think of software as some pure meritocracy based on raw technical skill, it really isn't primarily because the technical part of the job is generally easy for the majority of positions and its communication where things break down. If you seem unapproachable or difficult to work with, then people won't want to work with you. I am noticing that at my current employer "soft skills" and ability to work with a team are becoming a bigger part of the interview process. When I do technical interviews if I can't converse with a candidate about how they got to their solution or their difficulties, its a bigger red flag than whether or not they could solve the problem or not (unless its clear that they really don't know anything).

edit: Also you mentioned something about long hair. I have long hair (a bit past shoulder length now, but its been a longer). Its something I worried about too. Nobody cares is what I learned. What people care about is if you are well kept. you can be well kept with jeans and a t-shirt and long hair.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#866
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'll give you mock 30 minute interview (I've hired countless engineers, designers, PMs and other roles in the last 20+ years)" This is an incredibly generous offer and I hope it gets done, because it would BY FAR the most valuable thing that the OP needs.

I spent almost 2hrs with snakedoctor this evening. He's a smart young man who just needs some pointers and advice as he doesn't really have anyone around him who has experience of landing and keeping a job in tech.

That's extraordinarily generous and super that you actually provided him this opportunity. He clearly needs direction. I hope it works out for him and you get SUPER-brownie points.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#867
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'll give you mock 30 minute interview (I've hired countless engineers, designers, PMs and other roles in the last 20+ years)" This is an incredibly generous offer and I hope it gets done, because it would BY FAR the most valuable thing that the OP needs.

I spent almost 2hrs with snakedoctor this evening. He's a smart young man who just needs some pointers and advice as he doesn't really have anyone around him who has experience of landing and keeping a job in tech.

Kudos to you!

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#868
post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, that's definitely not my experience. I've interviewed or phone-screened at least 200 people over the last few years, and yes, there's been a handful of rejections where the major concern was social skills: abrasive, over-confident, poor communication or lacking the appearance of motivation. But I've had far more people who simply couldn't perform well enough on the technical problem or who had ob…

The only thing this tells me is you have an error in your hiring process that is leading you to interviewing people in person that cannot do the job. This should never happen.

Nope, hiring processes should bias for type 1 (false positive) errors at ingress, and bias for type 2 (false negative) on the decision side.

Otherwise we miss interviewing people who can do the job, and in my experience, some of the most interesting people; but this means, one may sometimes be interviewing people that cannot do the job.

Since these are human-mediated processes, there is no accurate single-stage filter, and anyone claiming to operate an unbiased hiring process is either a fool or a liar. A hiring funnel (and really, any decision process) that recognises the inevitability of biases, and is phased accordingly, leads to more optimal outcomes.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#869
post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Whoa, personal attacks like that will get you banned on HN. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Wtf how is this any different than other people in the thread calling the OP creepy and autistic?

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#870
post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing this tells me is you have an error in your hiring process that is leading you to interviewing people in person that cannot do the job. This should never happen.

Do you know of a way to screen out people who inflate their expertise on a resume or who fail to demonstrate competency in those areas during an interview, without actually interviewing them? Because if you do I'd love to hear it. But I thought that was the point of interviewing them. I don't expect recruiters and HR people who focus exclusively on hiring to have more than a shallow knowledge of what we're hiring for…

Yes you interview them over the phone in an initial phone screen before you invite them in for an in person interview.

The phone screen should cover lots of technical areas with deep follow up questions and examples.

I work in a specific niche (not coding) and can tell you that I bat .1000 on technical fit... cultural fit cannot be assessed until you meet the person and they meet the team, or at a minimum, hiring manager.

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