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Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

bugzilla.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#81

Post by egeozcan »

smarx007 wrote: post #31
zeta0134 wrote: post #9

Heh, this won't annoy me in particular since Firefox is already my default. Instead, it'll specifically annoy web developers who prefer some other browser, but are being good netizens and testing in Firefox too. I'm not really okay with making Firefox more annoying for these developers. It's their preference, and the checkbox in settings that is meant to control this prompt should actually control this prompt, all th…

Actually, it will annoy me in particular even though FF is my default browser. Technically, Choosy ( https://www.choosyosx.com/ ) is my default "browser" on macOS and FF is the preferred browser in Choosy. I hope there will be an about:config preference to disable "nudging".

I swear I had this idea! (I mean choosy) Perhaps it's a natural conclusion. Another similar idea is auto-sorting downloaded files (and extracting archives, also acting on the origin by reading the FF sqlite DB, etc.)

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#82

Post by egeozcan »

Croftengea wrote: post #11
walrus01 wrote: post #5

Still nowhere near as bad as Windows popping up a system level notification on consumer configurations of Windows 10, with a big advertisement for Edge and trying to get people to change their browser to Edge.

It's even worse. When you launch Edge just to go to search and type 'download firefox' Edge tries to stop you by putting a nag banner right inside the search results.

And underneath that, there's an ad for opera...

https://i.imgur.com/hZCFKvT.png

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#83

Post by Karunamon »

tempest_ wrote: post #76
dralley wrote: post #46

I don't get anyone who is using this as a cudgel to claim that Chrome is better (and there are some in these comments already). Google don't deserve any credit for having stopped doing that after achieving near-total dominance through using those tactics. How much of Chrome's current marketshare can be attributed to: 1) Bundling Chrome with Adobe Flash Player, Adobe Reader, Java, and multiple free antivirus suites, w…

This is part of the problem with courting the privacy/niche user group. They routinely make the perfect the enemy of the good. While they scream constantly about these particular issues I have yet to see someone post a viable solution to FireFox's increasingly shrinking market share and there will be a point when the google search box either wont or cant pay the bills any longer.

I have yet to see someone post a viable solution to FireFox's increasingly shrinking market share

1. Stop alienating the people who care about things like this. Normal computer-illiterate users will not be convinced to switch to your browser. The last decade or so is evidence of that. Word of mouth is what unseated IE last time, but if you keep pissing off the people who actually care about their browser, you think that word is going to be positive?

2. Start respecting your users rather than regarding them with the same disdain as Chrome and GNOME with a thin veneer of "but we're not Google" to paper it over as a selling point. "We give a shit about you" (when backed by matching actions.. i.e. the opposite of the last 10 years of Firefox) is a selling point. "We're basically Chrome but made by someone else who uses a lot more flowery words about 'privacy' and 'empowerment'" is not.

That's it. Firefox isn't losing market share because of malfeasance, they are losing it because of an infuriating series of self-owns and poor decisions.

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#84

Post by Karunamon »

leppr wrote: post #63
jonpurdy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Numerous times in the past couple of years I’ve briefly tried Firefox, or considered trying it again. Stuff like this just keeps coming up completely souring it’s reputation. At least anecdotally speaking, they’re shooting themselves in the foot and I’ll put off touching FF for another few months until I forget about this.

Ok but then what do you use? Lynx? Chrome/Chromium/Brave have 10 times the amount of dark patterns. It's sad but the complexity and cruft of browser APIs have created an effective browser duopoly. There are no alternatives for any kind of mainstream usage.

What are the dark patterns in Brave?

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#85

Post by perryizgr8 »

walrus01 wrote: post #78
perryizgr8 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so disheartening to see Windows fall to such anti-user practices. But I guess this is par for the course for modern OSes. On apple systems I get a permanent system notification about Safari every few days. I have to dismiss it manually every time.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever - but how old are you? Because from a longer term perspective, having seen what Microsoft was up to in the mid to late 1990s, this is just them being consistent with how they've always been... It just has a new shiny friendly face on it with 'free' onedrive services, outlook webmail and such. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation#Antitrust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni…

I'm a 90s kid. But most of my computer usage happened with Win XP and Win 7. I remember them quite fondly, and don't recall such blatant user hostility.

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#86

Post by walrus01 »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #85
walrus01 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever - but how old are you? Because from a longer term perspective, having seen what Microsoft was up to in the mid to late 1990s, this is just them being consistent with how they've always been... It just has a new shiny friendly face on it with 'free' onedrive services, outlook webmail and such. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation#Antitrust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uni…

I'm a 90s kid. But most of my computer usage happened with Win XP and Win 7. I remember them quite fondly, and don't recall such blatant user hostility.

It was really more in the win98SE, NT4 and win2000 era that they took aggressive steps to make IE the default and crush Netscape as a competitor. Preventing PC manufacturers from bundling Netscape as a default installed program with an entry on the desktop as an icon, and in the start menu, was a big part of it.

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#87

Post by ectopod »

Karunamon wrote: post #41
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just stop shooting yourself in the foot It's just non-stop with Mozilla, isn't it? They have the curious pairing of technical excellence, and a long history of awful non-technical decision-making. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14754740 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22616740 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23391659 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680925 * https://news.ycombinator.co…

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mozilla has no respect for its users. This is a continuing pattern as you've very clearly demonstrated.

The Mozilla manifesto [1] principle 8:

> Transparent community-based processes promote participation, accountability and trust.

Ha ha ha ha ha. Every change is decided in private. By the time anyone outside Mozilla becomes aware of them it's too late to provide any input. Discussion of such decisions is forbidden on bugzilla, and the forums are ignored.

The only way to provide meaningful feedback is to quit Firefox. But I don't want to use Chrome. sigh

[1]: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#88

Post by jonpurdy »

leppr wrote: post #63
jonpurdy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Numerous times in the past couple of years I’ve briefly tried Firefox, or considered trying it again. Stuff like this just keeps coming up completely souring it’s reputation. At least anecdotally speaking, they’re shooting themselves in the foot and I’ll put off touching FF for another few months until I forget about this.

Ok but then what do you use? Lynx? Chrome/Chromium/Brave have 10 times the amount of dark patterns. It's sad but the complexity and cruft of browser APIs have created an effective browser duopoly. There are no alternatives for any kind of mainstream usage.

I use Safari + AdGuard for most things due to the native Mac interface and reduced power consumption. And Chromium + uBlock Origin when I need to use sites that don't work with anything other than Chrome.

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#89

Post by newscracker »

What I’d like to see is a way for loyal users to fund Mozilla Corporation (MoCo) [1], reduce the reliance of MoCo just a teeny bit on Google’s search partnership, and MoCo use some money to buy ads on Google to download Firefox. Google used the last method on all its online properties to sell Chrome to users, among other methods.

[1]: Donations on mozilla.org go to Mozilla Foundation, and that money is not spent on Firefox as such. Limited partnerships with Mullvad for VPN aren’t enough and aren’t even available around the world. This needs a larger effort. Firefox development gets money mainly from the search partnership with Google.

Re: Firefox to regularly nag users to change their default browser

#90

Post by MaxBarraclough »

SemiNormal wrote: post #52
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just stop shooting yourself in the foot It's just non-stop with Mozilla, isn't it? They have the curious pairing of technical excellence, and a long history of awful non-technical decision-making. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14754740 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22616740 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23391659 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680925 * https://news.ycombinator.co…

Why did you include the Mozilla Foundation as an awful decision?

Which link are you referring to?
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