How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#21

Post by thehappypm » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

I got pulled over driving through rural Missouri in December for speeding (something like 77 in a 65). I was pretty surprised to be pulled over, but I had out-of-state plates so figured I was just being picked on for an easy ticket.

The police officer was polite enough, but he asked me to sit in the front seat of the police car while he ran the papers, since it was cold out. Now obviously, I know my rights, and could easily have said "No, I'd like to stay in the car". But from everything I've learned from routine encounters with the police, being compliant and friendly is the recipe to getting out quick. So I agreed, got out of my car, and got into the police car's front seat. Nothing about it was particularly aggressive or intimidating, but I almost had a panic attack in the police car because of how weird and uncomfortable it was, and that the officer was not wearing a mask at all.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#22

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

mbirth wrote: post #16

noxer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an absurd comparison. This only tells me that being killed in a mass shooting is very very very unlikely which is in fact true. But being killed by police is also very very very unlikely in fact its de facto zero if you aren't a criminal/drug abuser and comply with police orders.

Did you not see recent news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj66LBel_WQ He "only" got pepper-sprayed, but now imagine if he tried to unbuckle himself using his hands where the frightened cop couldn't see them...

Which part of "...in fact its de facto zero if you aren't a criminal/drug abuser and comply with police orders." did you not read?

Also anecdotal evidence of a bad cop interaction is not a valid argument. There are thousands of interaction that happen every day. The fact that every once in a wile a bad interaction makes the news doesn't pose any information about the actually risk. Someone drunk driving into you and killing you is still more likely to happen but it usually doesn't make national news so people do not have an irrational fear of getting killed by drunk drivers but it happens all the time anyway. And guess what It would happen even more without police making thousands of interactions.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#23

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

nickserv wrote: post #19

noxer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad if that is your subjective reality but you can easily do your own research on the numbers and you will see this is complete nonsense. And comparing killing rate is nonsense too. Other places have other risks and other laws. The only thing you need to know is how likely are you in your place to be killed by the police. The answer is very very very unlikely unless you are a criminal, drug abuser or incapable of fol…

In Europe, extremely unlikely. I've never even been verbally abused by police in the UK, Spain, France, or Italy. I have been stopped a few times, fined a couple times, even searched once. But not once did I feel to be in any sort of danger, since at worst I had only committed a minor traffic violation. In the US, I've had a SWAT team break into my office, pointing automatic rifles to my head, slamming me to the grou…

Thanks for you anecdotal evidence that you never got shot because you aren't a criminal, drug abuser or incapable of following orders given to you by the police.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#24

Post by nickserv » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

noxer wrote: post #23

nickserv wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, extremely unlikely. I've never even been verbally abused by police in the UK, Spain, France, or Italy. I have been stopped a few times, fined a couple times, even searched once. But not once did I feel to be in any sort of danger, since at worst I had only committed a minor traffic violation. In the US, I've had a SWAT team break into my office, pointing automatic rifles to my head, slamming me to the grou…

Thanks for you anecdotal evidence that you never got shot because you aren't a criminal, drug abuser or incapable of following orders given to you by the police.

The point is, obviously, that any of those events could have rapidly ended up with me dead. For doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Do you really enjoy living in a country where police have power of life and death over you and your loved ones?

And what constitutes a criminal? Is speeding an executable offense for you? What about shoplifting? Selling weed? I'm curious.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#25

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

pwinnski wrote: post #14

noxer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad if that is your subjective reality but you can easily do your own research on the numbers and you will see this is complete nonsense. And comparing killing rate is nonsense too. Other places have other risks and other laws. The only thing you need to know is how likely are you in your place to be killed by the police. The answer is very very very unlikely unless you are a criminal, drug abuser or incapable of fol…

This seems like an egregious abuse of statistics. You, a randomly-selected individual within the borders of the United States, are extremely unlikely to be murdered by police--or anyone else. You, a person who is in the process of being pulled over by US police, have just had the likelihood of being murdered by police skyrocket. Is it more likely than not? Of course not! But it's dramatically more likely than it was…

You imply that you are more likely to get killed if you aren't white but this is the classic narrative that you where told by media. The whole George Floyd and BLM nonsense. There is absolutely no evidence that this claim is correct. There are disproportional more police interactions with non-whites and thus more such police interaction can result in a killing. That does not put a randomly-selected individual that happens to be not white at a higher risk of getting unjustifiably killed. The main reason people get killed by cops is because they are criminals and dont comply.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#26

Post by jakelazaroff » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

noxer wrote: post #22

mbirth wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not see recent news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj66LBel_WQ He "only" got pepper-sprayed, but now imagine if he tried to unbuckle himself using his hands where the frightened cop couldn't see them...

Which part of "...in fact its de facto zero if you aren't a criminal/drug abuser and comply with police orders." did you not read? Also anecdotal evidence of a bad cop interaction is not a valid argument. There are thousands of interaction that happen every day. The fact that every once in a wile a bad interaction makes the news doesn't pose any information about the actually risk. Someone drunk driving into you and…

> And guess what It would happen even more without police making thousands of interactions.

This claim is dubious — there are studies showing both a modest decrease [1][2] and no correlation [3] in the drunk driving crash rate when arrests are increased.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4254192/

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK217455/

[3] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6221143_Policing_th...

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#27

Post by jfengel » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #15

nickserv wrote: post #7

Incredibly sad that this sort of thing is required. Obviously nobody enjoys getting pulled over, but you should be fearing a fine, not getting beat up or killed.

Being pulled over is incredibly safe, there's almost zero chance of being shot for people who aren't antagonizing. Policing in America is overly assertive, but remember that almost 1/2 the people they pull over have guns, it's dangerous for them as well creating a bad kind of civil standoff. While more police training and oversight is necessary, it won't materially change the dynamic in any kind of statistically cons…

I think you've put your finger on it. Because guns are ubiquitous in the US, the police are afraid every single time they interact. This leads to mistakes, sometimes deadly ones. "Almost zero chance" times millions of interactions means a few very, very bad outcomes.

Those outcomes may be clustered around certain people who already have a tenuous relationship with the police. Again, a small amount of racism times a lot of interactions leads to some very visible issues. And now that people have cameras all the time, those very visible issues are obvious to everybody.

There doesn't seem to be any solution to this. The US has committed to its guns. Police must assume that you are armed, and agitated by having to deal with police (even if they've pulled you over for a genuine but minor infraction such as a moving violation or equipment failure). In this circumstance, people are going to die. It's simply a thing we have tacitly accepted.

There will also be people who won't tacitly accept it, and their outrage is also a thing we have to accept. They live in fear of an armed police force the same way the armed police force is afraid of them. That's going to lead to escalating violence, and there doesn't seem to be anything we can do about that.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#28

Post by rogerhoms » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

nickserv wrote: post #7

Incredibly sad that this sort of thing is required. Obviously nobody enjoys getting pulled over, but you should be fearing a fine, not getting beat up or killed.

asddasfdsda

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#29

Post by davidgould » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

dctoedt wrote: post #4

noxer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you worried police is shooting you and your phone? The whole article make its look like any police interaction is somehow a thread to peoples live. Its absurd. Nothing wrong with recording (where legal) but if you need to stream it and store it on the blockchains you probably need a reality check. What really puts people in danger is the car also a phone being used in the car and then a bazillion other things bef…

> Nothing wrong with recording (where legal) Except that there are plenty of examples of a cop going after a bystander who's recording the cop's interaction with someone because the cop doesn't want it recorded — and the cop tells the bystander something like "you're obstructing a police matter," which is ... not correct.

Or even assaulting and/or arresting the bystander filming.

Re: How to Use Siri I'm Getting Pulled over to Record Police

#30

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

nickserv wrote: post #24

noxer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for you anecdotal evidence that you never got shot because you aren't a criminal, drug abuser or incapable of following orders given to you by the police.

The point is, obviously, that any of those events could have rapidly ended up with me dead. For doing absolutely nothing wrong. Do you really enjoy living in a country where police have power of life and death over you and your loved ones? And what constitutes a criminal? Is speeding an executable offense for you? What about shoplifting? Selling weed? I'm curious.

>...could have rapidly ended up with me dead.

Like if you started to shoot? What exactly could have turned this around without invalidating the "For doing absolutely nothing wrong."

Its kind silly statement its like "I almost got pulled over for doing absolutely nothing, imagine If I were speeding, they would have stooped me for sure, I was lucky."

>And what constitutes a criminal? Is speeding an executable offense for you? What about shoplifting? Selling weed? I'm curious.

How does that matter? If you get pulled over you comply. I dont cares if you where speeding or have too much window tint or maybe the cop just wants to tell you that one of you back lights is broken. If you dont comply you are in the wrong. You put yourself and other in danger for no reason. If the cop does something inappropriate make a complain or escalate legal actions to whatever is appropriate afterwards. There is absolutely zero point in resisting or not complying. If you resist/dont comply the actions the cop take are towards that and possible risks you pose to him and other. The original reason why they stopped you becomes irrelevant. You dont get shot for windows tint but you do if you try to run over a cop and flee or if you act as if you are searching a gun or whatever stupid thing you could do that makes the cop escalate force.

Also the fact that there are trigger happy cops does not change this at all. You can't know if you get stooped by such a cop and even if you do know your best chance to not get harmed is still to comply and take legal actions after wards. The only reason why people who truly did nothing wrong put themself in danger is their own ego.