Live data from Hacker News

Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

economist.com

281–290 of 497 posts

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#281
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how Belgiums works, but Australias stamp duty is a lump sum you pay alongside your deposit when buying the property. Correction: I double checked and it looks like it can be added to your mortgage, which isn't as bad up front.

That is not quite correct. Stamp duty is payable at the time of settlement but it is normally added as a lump sum to the mortgage.

I've added an addendum! I must have misremembered that bit of info.

Thanks!

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A curious phenomenon I have noticed only in India is that rental yields tend to be much lower than any other country. Arguably, if renting is so cheap, it makes more sense to rent than own a house, unless property is expected to appreciate in value indefinitely.

Most homes are purchased for the purpose of living in them. Additionally, monthly rental income is less than a quarter of loan payments, assuming 80% of total is taken as loan, which is true in most cases. Loan tenures are about 25 years, so most families take a home and pay the loans during their active service life. About 10 or 15 years down the line, one or two floors are added to tge house, for rental purpose. He…

> Most homes are purchased for the purpose of living in them.

[citation needed]

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#283
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how Belgiums works, but Australias stamp duty is a lump sum you pay alongside your deposit when buying the property. Correction: I double checked and it looks like it can be added to your mortgage, which isn't as bad up front.

That's rough, although paying it once and being done with it is certainly preferable (long term, if you have the funds) to wrapping it into the mortgage and paying 3-4x over the life of the loan.

Functionally it is wrapped into the loan because without that, you would have had more down payment.

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#285

Even from the title, the implication is that "home ownership" is a "policy" from the government rather than just a natural state of people acquiring and improving the land. It implies the government can simply revoke home ownership by a new policy. Property ownership and improvement isn't a privilege "given" to us by a benevolent government with their immaculate "policies" from time immemorial. People are the source…

Policies like the mortgage interest deduction are hardly the "natural state".

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#286

Even from the title, the implication is that "home ownership" is a "policy" from the government rather than just a natural state of people acquiring and improving the land. It implies the government can simply revoke home ownership by a new policy. Property ownership and improvement isn't a privilege "given" to us by a benevolent government with their immaculate "policies" from time immemorial. People are the source…

The problem is not home ownership itself, it's the system of incentives and tax breaks governments have used to promote it to the point where housing markets have become massively distorted. It's this policy of government interference in markets that the article is arguing against. If you still want to own your home that's fine, I can't imagine the flagship journal of market liberalisation arguing against you, but why should you benefit from massive subsidies and artificial constraints on supply to ratchet up the value of your property?

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#287
post #4

What's this obsession with increasing housing density? Population in the developing world is leveling off. Most of the developed world is already at "peak child".[1] Housing shortages come from migration to cities, not more people. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/peak-child

> What's this obsession with increasing housing density?

The real question is "What's this obsession with decreasing housing density?"

Cities don't have zoning laws mandating minimum densities, they have laws mandating maximum densities. If there was an "obsession with increasing housing density" as you claim, wouldn't we see the opposite?

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#288

I would pin the failure on how we view home ownership as an investment vehicle. There's little inherently appreciable to a building. In fact they depreciate over time and require constant investment to maintain. The location however can appreciate, which we all agree on. But we never say out loud the underlying mechanism. Locations appreciate in value specifically because more humans want to own it. Viewing homes as…

Structures don’t necessarily depreciate in value over time if maintained. The costs of materials and labor increase allowing an existing structure to maintain value and appreciate. Have you seen how much a 2x4 costs today? $8! When my home was built that piece of wood cost 5 cents.

So the value of the structure is what it would cost in terms of parts and labor today minus existing wear-and-tear and needed repairs. Of course maintaining the structure probably eats up any potential profit over time on the structure itself while the land appreciates indefinitely.

However in many places the land is worth far more than the structure.

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#289
post #240

Property ownership is bad. Rent for life, dont leave inheritance to your children so they can rent for life too. All you need in life is clothing, entertainment, a bit of travel to distract you from your tiny living space, maybe a gadget or two and of course onsite work. Oh and praise from you manager to add meaning to your daily grind. Or so “they” say while “they” amass thousands of properties and massive fortunes…

What is "financial freedom"? You still have to work, use state currency, pay taxes. Did you mean owning your own home is the first step towards being wealthy?

Enough savings that you don't worry about little things. I just had to fix a wheel bearing on my car $700 later (my mechanic replaced the brakes and a few other small things while in the area) - not a large thing, but for many people that is more than they have saved up.

There are safety nets for big things - not always good ones, but they exist everywhere and so when something major goes wrong you can count on some help. However there are a lot of little things that are both far more likely to go wrong, and also things that it is harder to get help with from any sort of safety net.

Re: Home ownership is the West’s biggest economic-policy mistake

#290
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a minimum 5% deposit + 3-5% stamp duty Oh wow. I had to read the rest of your comment twice to understand that you were saying these seem high to you. They seemed really low to me. To put it into perspective, you need a 10-20% deposit in Belgium (depending on various factors) and there's a 6% tax for an old house (10% up until very recently) or 21% for a new house. It's basically impossible to buy a house if you're…

In comparison, in Finland the stamp duty is 0% when you buy your first home while you are under 40.

The Netherlands has just implemented something like this as well, but so far nothing has changed for the better for starters.
Post reply on HN