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Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

economist.com

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Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#11

Post by Ericson2314 »

Swizec wrote: post #5
iJohnDoe wrote: post #4

Great, you can work from. So you take your California money to middle of nowhere and buy a home for cheap. Renovate it and now it’s awesome. However, that local, who isn’t making California money, that is working a local job and making local money and is hoping to move up in housing for their family is priced out because housing pricing has doubled or even tripled. People that wanted to retire to rural or remote area…

1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. 2. This is how gentrification works. Many of these folks are coming because they’ve been priced out of wherever they’re coming from. 3. Housing can’t be both a right and subject to free-ish market mechanisms.

Thanks, can be repeated enough. Cars and single family home sububanization are perhaps America's greatest 20th century self-inflicted wound.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#12

Post by Swizec »

adventured wrote: post #7
Swizec wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. 2. This is how gentrification works. Many of these folks are coming because they’ve been priced out of wherever they’re coming from. 3. Housing can’t be both a right and subject to free-ish market mechanisms.

> 1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. One is technically wrong. It can't be both a good investment and remain affordable. It can be both affordable and a good investment in the present, with prices rising over time generating a good return and making it increasingly unaffordable.

Sure. But that was 70 years ago in USA. The affordable housing ship has all but sailed for our generation.

Except apparently in tiny towns where we’re now ruining it for the locals.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#13

Post by Ericson2314 »

adventured wrote: post #7
Swizec wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. 2. This is how gentrification works. Many of these folks are coming because they’ve been priced out of wherever they’re coming from. 3. Housing can’t be both a right and subject to free-ish market mechanisms.

> 1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. One is technically wrong. It can't be both a good investment and remain affordable. It can be both affordable and a good investment in the present, with prices rising over time generating a good return and making it increasingly unaffordable.

"... Over time" is usually implied in most policy proposals.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#14

Post by tayo42 »

iJohnDoe wrote: post #4

Great, you can work from. So you take your California money to middle of nowhere and buy a home for cheap. Renovate it and now it’s awesome. However, that local, who isn’t making California money, that is working a local job and making local money and is hoping to move up in housing for their family is priced out because housing pricing has doubled or even tripled. People that wanted to retire to rural or remote area…

So you can stay in California and hear the same complaints.

Where am I allowed to live everyone? Lol

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#15

Post by isaacimagine »

As someone who lived in a small city in the American Mountain West, the boom does have consequences. Sleepy farming towns are becoming endless suburbia, hiking up prices as developers spill over from the Lehi 'Silicon Slopes' area.

Midway, for instance, a town on the Wasatch back situated in a location that feels similar to Switzerland, has gone from about 150 diaries to 2, as expanding housing developments buy out the high-valued farmland.

You'd think with the influx of money, and reduction in competition, it'd be easier for the remaining diaries to compete. Not so: the price of milk has remained basically unchanged since the 70s, but the cost required to run a farm has kept increasing.

So why not cash out? (A few farmers in the area have actually cashed out and moved to Idaho, and they're pretty much set for life.) Long story short, Midway is a beautiful place to live, and the remaining diaries form a pillar of the community - it's just not something the remaining diary owners, who have been farming the land for generations, want to do.

To stay in business, the remaining diaries have pivoted to artisan cheese production, with plans to produce other high-valued products, like ice-cream. Tours and locally-sourced farm stores are an additional source of income.

Of course, these are just my own two cents. I don't mean to come off overly negative about the situation. As much as I'd love to work for a FAANG, retire early, and buy a large house in an idyllic mountain town, I'd hate for that same town to loose its historical roots and what makes it that special idyllic mountain town in the first place.

Source: I'm a software engineer who lived/worked as a cheese-maker for a dairy there.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#16

Post by client4 »

I can't wait until people are required to move back to cities for in office work. Small towns are becoming faceless neighborhoods of urban areas with a SouthWest or JetBlue commute. New residents want to ignore their neighbors and put up gates to their home. Small towns have heart because people interact with each other and work to make the community better.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#17

Post by Ericson2314 »

Swizec wrote: post #12
adventured wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. One is technically wrong. It can't be both a good investment and remain affordable. It can be both affordable and a good investment in the present, with prices rising over time generating a good return and making it increasingly unaffordable.

Sure. But that was 70 years ago in USA. The affordable housing ship has all but sailed for our generation. Except apparently in tiny towns where we’re now ruining it for the locals.

In fairness, These aren't really tiny towns and haven't been for a generation. It's classic sunbelt boom-sprawl-puke. (Never mind Colorado isn't actually sunny at all.)

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#18

Post by koboll »

Swizec wrote: post #5
iJohnDoe wrote: post #4

Great, you can work from. So you take your California money to middle of nowhere and buy a home for cheap. Renovate it and now it’s awesome. However, that local, who isn’t making California money, that is working a local job and making local money and is hoping to move up in housing for their family is priced out because housing pricing has doubled or even tripled. People that wanted to retire to rural or remote area…

1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. 2. This is how gentrification works. Many of these folks are coming because they’ve been priced out of wherever they’re coming from. 3. Housing can’t be both a right and subject to free-ish market mechanisms.

>2. This is how gentrification works. Many of these folks are coming because they’ve been priced out of wherever they’re coming from.

Yep. If you want to blame someone, blame local governments in California and their chronic refusal to build adequate housing, citing dubious progressive buzzwords to push policies whose outcomes always curiously seem to further enrich property owners and screw over everyone else.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#19

Post by bsder »

Swizec wrote: post #5
iJohnDoe wrote: post #4

Great, you can work from. So you take your California money to middle of nowhere and buy a home for cheap. Renovate it and now it’s awesome. However, that local, who isn’t making California money, that is working a local job and making local money and is hoping to move up in housing for their family is priced out because housing pricing has doubled or even tripled. People that wanted to retire to rural or remote area…

1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. 2. This is how gentrification works. Many of these folks are coming because they’ve been priced out of wherever they’re coming from. 3. Housing can’t be both a right and subject to free-ish market mechanisms.

> Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment.

It certainly can be.

However, the combination of 0% Fed Interest Rate and low property tax rates kills the "affordable" side of that equation.

The 0% Fed Interest Rate means people can go way higher in mortgaging the hell out of themselves than if the rate was say 5%.

As for the property tax, raising the property tax rate limits the price of a home because even if someone could swing the down payment on a McMansion, the annual property tax payment would start biting into how good an investment it is. So, the developers would start building houses that assess at where the majority of buyers sit.

Of course, the same people who complain about getting gentrified also generally oppose raising property taxes even slightly. Oh well.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#20

Post by geodel »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #11
Swizec wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Housing cannot be both affordable and a good investment. 2. This is how gentrification works. Many of these folks are coming because they’ve been priced out of wherever they’re coming from. 3. Housing can’t be both a right and subject to free-ish market mechanisms.

Thanks, can be repeated enough. Cars and single family home sububanization are perhaps America's greatest 20th century self-inflicted wound.

I guess so. All time greatest will be Columbus's discovery of America.
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