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Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

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Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#141

Let us be real, folks: - You are reading this comment. - You are likely highly or fairly paid. - You don’t pay for your news (to a partisan substack doesn’t count) Edit: Added likely to comment. Icing on the cake is if you consume almost all your news through Twitter / social media. Maybe stop clicking and reacting and instead stop and reflect your role in all this? Cold hard truth? We caused this problem, Facebook i…

> Cold hard truth? We caused this problem, Facebook is a great scapegoat, and most here likely contributed to bigger issues with information distribution in one way or another through their employment.

That's bullshit. The current state of affairs came about due to Facebook and Google's actions and business practices over the past two decades. Both of these companies massive scale (obtained in large part due to anti-competitive practices and a total lack of regulation) and reach gives them complete control over what we consume and where.

It's a long history with a lot of different parts to it, but it's mostly the fault of these two companies. Consumers can't be blamed for seeking the most value in the market, it's just that the market is fucked because of these two powerful bad actors.

Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also like everything to be cheaper. With password managers, it’s not that much work to visit multiple websites.

> I would also like everything to be cheaper. The point is that with "Netfilx for news" you increase the number of people paying. Thus decreasing cost for the individuals. > With password managers, it’s not that much work to visit multiple websites. It is not just about managing logins. You also have to manage payments. And make the decisions about what you want to read months in advance. People hate making decisions…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#143
post #32

> There’s no evidence that the deal directly affects coverage in either the news or editorial departments. Before the Facebook News deal, the Times famously published an op-ed titled “It’s Time to Break Up Facebook,” by Chris Hughes, a cofounder of Facebook turned critic. And since the deal, columns from Tim Wu and Kara Swisher, among others, have been similarly critical. In December, the editorial board welcomed a l…

>"And since the deal, columns from Tim Wu and Kara Swisher ..." Those two individuals are both Op-Ed writers. The Opinion section in a paper is not the same as regular news reporting and so not beholden to a newspaper's editorial policy.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-ed

Really? Tom Cotton might beg to differ.

Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#144

Let us be real, folks: - You are reading this comment. - You are likely highly or fairly paid. - You don’t pay for your news (to a partisan substack doesn’t count) Edit: Added likely to comment. Icing on the cake is if you consume almost all your news through Twitter / social media. Maybe stop clicking and reacting and instead stop and reflect your role in all this? Cold hard truth? We caused this problem, Facebook i…

Serious question: which news organizations should I consider paying for?

It appears like a negative feedback loop to me. News orgs are bad because they optimize for clicks and "engagement" to drive ad revenue. News works rely on ad revenue because nobody will pay for them. Nobody will pay for them because they're bad.

Is there anyone who hasn't succumbed to this cycle which is worth my money?

My current strategy is to visit aggregators like HN to help filter out some of the better content. Aggregators are subject to the biases of the communities they foster so I have to be very careful of echo chambers, but they're better than nothing.

Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody bloody cares about integrity of journalism. There's a gigantic difference between tech blogs and the NYT or WaPo. Nobody expects tech blogs to exercise journalistic independence/integrity. People do with the NYT and WaPo, and loudly cancel their subscriptions when the believe that's violated.

> People do with the NYT and WaPo, and loudly cancel their subscriptions when the believe that's violated. Nowadays, they mostly cancel their subscriptions when they get to read some opinion they don't like.

That seems a little too optimistic. Nowadays, they cancel their subscriptions when they get to read some fact they don't like. For example, back in the run-up to the 2016 election there was an utterly nutso, completely nonsensical conspiracy theory about Trump using DNS as a secret communications channel with a Russian bank and, for some reason, a US medical clinic which the Clinton campaign demanded the FBI investigate. After that demand went viral on social media, the NYT pushed back in the gentlest way possible by saying the FBI had looked at these claims and concluded all the evidence was likely the result of normal mass marketing emails for Trump hotels. (This is also what most experts concluded regardless of political affiliation. Other problems included the fact it would've made a really awful communication channel and wasn't even remotely under Trump's control.) Some time later, there was such a pushback against this including a campaign of cancelled subscriptions, that the Times basically ended up apologising and saying they wouldn't do it again.

To this day, the only part of this that has been called a conspiracy theory by any mainstream publication is the idea that the whole thing could be an entirely technically unremarkable result of ordinary mass marketing emails for Trump hotels.

Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#146
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The core conflict here isn't new, surely. Newspapers have taken advertising money from news-making companies since time immaterial. And if you can find a viable alternative to this, your company will be worth hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars[1]. The internet has killed the classifieds business and commoditized news to the point that most people won't pay for it. Accepting advertising from potentially…

I've re-read your post a few times and I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but it keeps reading to me like "bad things have become the normal and people should stop pointing it out". Whether or not there is a better solution, I think there are clearly dangers inherent to monetizing news with ad revenue and I think there is value in keeping a careful eye on them.

Yes, I agree that there are dangers. However is there any evidence of the dangers being a reality in this instance? The article directly says there is no evidence. If there is no evidence, why is this story specifically about the NYT and Facebook?

There is also danger involved in shaming the NYT for accepting ad money and in turn having them cut coverage in response to decreased revenue. There are plenty of examples of that.

I am more concerned with the danger we have evidence of rather than the one we don't.

Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#147
post #134
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet destroyed newspapers ability to milk classified ads so we should look the other way when journals get in bed with the newsmakers? Wait until we have overwhelming proof because the system isn't working? But things are working for the Times not so much for regional players. How does this help us?

>Wait until we have overwhelming proof because the system isn't working? Where did that word "overwhelming" come from? I want us to wait until there is any proof rather than screaming "WOLF!" at a mere shadow. I will highlight this from the originally linked article: >There’s no evidence that the deal directly affects coverage in either the news or editorial departments.

The lack of a frontpage story since the deal on the evils of facebook today is proof that they are not publishing the same type of articles.

If you are waiting for smoking gun evidence by the time that comes out we won't care. We will be conditioned to accept it as the norm by then. Now is the time to speak up.

Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#148
post #32

> There’s no evidence that the deal directly affects coverage in either the news or editorial departments. Before the Facebook News deal, the Times famously published an op-ed titled “It’s Time to Break Up Facebook,” by Chris Hughes, a cofounder of Facebook turned critic. And since the deal, columns from Tim Wu and Kara Swisher, among others, have been similarly critical. In December, the editorial board welcomed a l…

The question of whether money affects coverage is among those which are incredibly difficult to find evidence for without a smoking gun. There's no direct proof in whether a given story supports or hurts a financier. I'm stretching for an example but there is circumstantial evidence the interactions between various macro ecosystems push conditions of earth's biosphere toward homeostasis, but suggesting this is deterministic is not substantiated by any known directly testable phenomena. Until we decode latent genetic algorithms, it'll remain speculation. Likewise we're left only with speculation in the absence of an explicit, "run story or we pull funding" type memo.

That said a lot of economics tends to make sense when examined through a lens of incentives. There has been an observable shift toward radicalization of news content since this article indicates FB began funding its news feature. Opinion pieces seem to often displace primary stories based on whether they suit a dominant hyperbolic narrative. Whether by FB design or simply a natural response to the soaring appeal of hyperbolic click bait favored by social news aggregation is anybody's guess.

I will say I am appalled by a lack of accountability the Times has had over the last year. For example regularly publishing summary statistics without acknowledging significant sampling problems, figures any self-respecting statistician would never consider submitting for academic review are still regularly passed off as fact. Moreover discourse regarding what constitutes effective policy, consideration of cost and benefit, or even determination of what society's goals are let alone whether they are realistic has been contemptuously derided as conspiracy and dogma of the Trumpian cult. Without rational discourse there is little hope for progress, and in that regard I arrived at my own foregone conclusions, that the hyperbolic nature of news media is one of the most significant barriers to positive change we face as a society.

On that note, if you find yourself buying into a fear of outsiders you might want to reconsider the fact most people share the same fundamental values and our differences between one another is often negligible. Believe it or not beyond the lazy opinions about issues scantly related to every day life, the average liberal and conservative have exactly the same amount of love for their friends and family. We often simply disagree regarding the means to similar ends. As a single global society we all face the same problems, but our biggest problem right now is spanning the distance we've created between coming together socially as friends and colleagues.

Re: Facebook gives money to America’s biggest news organizations

#149
post #5

I don't see how news is sustainable at current employment levels. Most papers cover the same stories from their own angle, but we don't need 1,000 duplicated takes. Social media bubbles headlines and links up from a potluck of sources, so there's no central paper to subscribe to and support. The end result is ad blocking everything, ignoring paywalls, and subscribing or paying no one. If I went to a paper's website i…

Isn’t Apple News+ the Spotify of newspapers? If you don’t want the social aspect of news, you can get the AP stories through the AP News app or subscribe to rss feeds to major papers. The AP keeps papers from covering the same story from their own angle, you’ll usually see the same AP stories printed in papers across the country. I agree it’s hard to filter the news on your own and quality journalism does seem to be…

Not really, since it doesn't include most major newspapers. News+ is closer to the Spotify of magazines.
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