Earlier quoted context omitted.
So point them out, please. One that is efficient on all levels.
The reader will find dozens of suggestion in this thread about how coin X is more "efficient". Note that efficiency would mean producing the same properties but with less resources. Not merely using less resources. While experimentation is certainly desired, it's a fallacy that any coin has actually reproduced bitcoin in a more efficient way. To name a couple, - Bitcoin had what some call an "immaculate conception" w…
Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
401–410 of 431 posts
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#402Bitcoin's hash rate has always been volatile, and it doesn't cause problems. Look at the raw values at https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate >.
Doesn't cause problems? The average cost of a single transaction is over $50 now. The cost of a single transaction is the same as a hard drive that could store the entire bitcoin chain 4-5 times over. https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees...
An alternative to Bitcoin’s fixed size is Monero’s adaptive block sizing. Monero blocks expand to fit more transactions, resulting in lower fees and higher throughput.
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I have the power to tweak any/all peers of any p2p system arbitrarily, then I already have supreme authority over what that system does. This is not my argument and is your straw man. The point is most clients run whatever the politicians tell them to. What makes it even harder for engineers to see what’s actually going on with Bitcoin is that we suck at politicking and don’t even see it when it’s happening: the…
> The point is most clients run whatever the politicians tell them to. What makes it even harder for engineers to see what’s actually going on with Bitcoin is that we suck at politicking and don’t even see it when it’s happening: the shaming if you’re running the wrong version, the worshipping of certain devs to help identify shepherds the sheep should follow, the scapegoating of dissenters, etc. Woah there buddy, sp…
No, I never said this and this another straw man. The point is that the most-work chain is allowed to be ignored if the politics are done right. You just need the right people pushing for adoption of the minority chain, and to label the most-work chain as an “attack” or a “bug”. In this event, there is no protocol defining which chain gets the name “Bitcoin”, it becomes a game of power, of who has more social capital in the space and who can maneuver exchanges and users into agreeing which chain is “real” and which chain is “pretender”.
Maybe a picture will help: imagine all the existing investors who strongly insist on deflationary policy are gone in 100 years, and they get replaced with folks who care a lot less about “sound money” arguments. Imagine devs, exchanges, miners, all agree that a constant supply inflation would be preferred. Then, all they need to do is release a new version of reference software that keeps the block subsidy in perpetuity, and make a very strong case that this fork is for the security and stability of the Bitcoin economy (to make that case here is beside the point). In this example, the handful of folks who will be fussing about Austrian economics and declaring “that chain is not the real Bitcoin!” will be relegated as outcasts, even if they insist on keeping the name “Bitcoin” and release an “original Bitcoin” client, it won’t matter, because the market will have decided for them which chain the rest of the world uses. And it’s this chain that wins the political game that will keep the name “Bitcoin”.
Again, the argument for which monetary policy is best is irrelevant, and how likely you see this event as happening is also irrelevant. The fact that this hypothetical is even _possible_ and that Satoshi’s system doesn’t preclude it from happening, is the argument for why proof-of-work fails. PoW is ultimately subject to politics which means the whole system is subject to politics.
You can also look at the BCash fork itself. The events leading up to that fork were not smooth at all, and the outcome of the fork was wholly uncertain at the time. Popular blockchain analytics sites had public trackers of which ideology had more brainshare, devs drew the party lines, exchanges issued statements declaring party allegiance, miners signaled support in their blocks, users took to Twitter to unite the herd. If Roger/Gavin/Mike had been the only ones with a public platform and Core had never responded with their own campaigning, miners would’ve easily abandoned the “real Bitcoin” and Coinbase and crew would’ve easily pushed for the fork to keep the name “Bitcoin”. It is the political campaigning of the incumbent party that kept them in power and that kept the hash rate on that chain. None of these mechanics are outlined in any Bitcoin whitepaper I know of.
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Yes, and it’s vastly less than Bitcoin. Ponder, for a moment, the way in which governments use the "printing" of fiat money to fund wars (for private sector profit, revolving back into that private sector's lobbying those governments for even more war and military spending). Ponder, for a moment, the amount of energy and Earth's resources expended to materialize these wars and military spending. Bitcoin (or, the pr…
Again and again this claim... I fail to imagine how anyonr believes that the US or China could be stopped from going to war by not having enough BTC of all things... In a BTC world they would simply borrow BTC (if they wluldnt control 50% of hashpower anyway) and that would be it. If you imagine that people wouldn't lend BTC to the US, remember that, when Standard&Poor's reduced America's credit rating, US bonds shot…
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is due to the construction? Just wondering nif there are any hidden runtime emissions you are refering to.
It is due to the decomposing vegetation under the water. However, it depends on what is under the water. Some hydro reservoirs actually are carbon sinks while others are worse than coal plants. You also have to take time of operation into account. Hydro becomes cleaner as time passes. A 50 year old hydro plant will have had a lot of the vegetation decomposed already vs a 5 year old one.
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
A very large amount (something about 25-47% [1]) of homes use electricity without getting any computation for their electricity to heat conversion. Those homes could use computing devices (albeit at a high capital cost) with 0 marginal energy or environmental cost. Especially if their device is a sunk cost. Yes heat pumps are better than 100% efficient, but they're inappropriate in many circumstances, and can be as e…
Let's assume that this is true and there is a way to leverage waste heat from mining perfectly. This would reduce the cost of mining and the savings can be invested into more mining.
I think datacenters should be providing waste heat for industry, pools, residential hotwater etc. Similar idea for miners. If they can consume 1kw of electricity but then sell 500w of waste heat, that can be quite good for the environment and bottom line.
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again and again this claim... I fail to imagine how anyonr believes that the US or China could be stopped from going to war by not having enough BTC of all things... In a BTC world they would simply borrow BTC (if they wluldnt control 50% of hashpower anyway) and that would be it. If you imagine that people wouldn't lend BTC to the US, remember that, when Standard&Poor's reduced America's credit rating, US bonds shot…
> "Counterfeiting and inflation are the same thing. Counterfeiting is criminalized inflation, and inflation is legalized counterfeiting."
You could say that money printing and counterfeiting are similar things on opposite sides of the law. But that is still a shallow, high-school level understanding. When a con artist pays for things with counterfeit money they don't typically invest this back into the economy and produce more value, so counterfeiting is virtually guaranteed to produce inflation if it is not curtailed.
But governments print money in huge quantities all the time with minimal inflation.
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't cause problems? The average cost of a single transaction is over $50 now. The cost of a single transaction is the same as a hard drive that could store the entire bitcoin chain 4-5 times over. https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees...
Transaction cost isn’t determined by hash rate. The difficulty adjusts to the hash rate such that a block is mined every X minutes. Because the block size is fixed, transaction fees are determined by the market for being included in a block, so the more transactions the higher the fees. An alternative to Bitcoin’s fixed size is Monero’s adaptive block sizing. Monero blocks expand to fit more transactions, resulting i…
It adjusts after two weeks on 10 minute blocks.
When the has rate drops suddenly as it just did, the block rate drops and the transaction capacity drops with it. The time to adjust also stretches out since it is based on a number of blocks and not on absolute time. If hash rate drops 50%, then the transaction capacity drops 50% and the time to adjust extends to about three weeks instead of two.
An alternative is anything else but bitcoin and ethereum. Those are the only two with high transaction costs. Bitcoin cash, monero, dogecoin, litecoin and whatever else are still viable, although when dogecoin shot up the transactions started to cost 50 cents to $1 USD.
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't cause problems? The average cost of a single transaction is over $50 now. The cost of a single transaction is the same as a hard drive that could store the entire bitcoin chain 4-5 times over. https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees...
The cost of transactions is not directly related to hashrate in the way you imply.
Hash rates dropping suddenly means transaction throughput drops suddenly, which makes transaction costs go up. That is the dynamic and that is exactly what happened.
Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China
#410Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also a good time to point out that there are energy efficient blockchains that work differently from bitcoin -- not all crypto is as power hungry (some use disk space, or memory, or even just the tokens themselves to replace bitcoin's proof of work model).
So point them out, please. One that is efficient on all levels.
Stellar Lumens & Ripple: More centralized but that centralization means there no no wasteful proof of work needed
Tezos: like a cheaper version of Ethereum for NFTs. Already powered by proof of stake.
Polkadot: Many new coins are beginning to be released on polkadot’s proof of stake network just as they are on Ethereum’s network.
Binance coin- centralized and proof of stake. The whole Binance Smart Chain network is powered by just 21 nodes (validates) that stake about 3.5M of Binance coin.
Cardano - has a cool name and is powered by proof of stake. Has lots of PHD research papers but most of which are over my head.
Algorand- a fast and cheap new cryptocurrency that is powered by two different kinds of validator nodes, one centralized and the other decentralized.
Ethereum 2.0 - will probably take 2-3 years to migrate to proof of stake but once it does, it’s possible that many of the above cryptocurrencies will be rendered obsolete unless they’ve captured large amounts of the market before then.
All 8 of these coins/tokens should meet your standards of being efficient on all levels. When evaluating cryptocurrencies you’ll notice this pattern. The cryptocurrencies with the cheapest transaction fees tend to use the least amount of energy.