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Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

theatlantic.com

241–250 of 262 posts

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HfH typically provides the mortgage with a 0% interest rate also. They are a tremendous program that should be scaled up.

based on my experience volunteering for habitat, the hard part of scaling the model is finding affordable and buildable infill in cities (which is where the highest need is). it typically takes years for each project to go from ideation to purchase to design to zoning variances to enviromental review to groundbreaking. the construction itself is only on the order of months. everything that comes before actual constru…

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Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#242

Something that bothers me is this: In California, 75% of renters support building more housing, 51% of owners support building more housing, and yet housing gets built at a glacial pace. I'd like to know why this is. Some wild-ass guesses: 1. A majority of Californians support housing being built, just not too close to where they are 2. The 75% or Renters and 51% of homeowners skew younger and are thus less likely to…

If you're paying someone else to live in a house, then you are on the losing side of the power dynamic.

While this is broadly true, it's not universally true.

I was far better off renting when I moved to this town. I had a down-payment, but my rent was less than the just the interest on my mortgage for a condo would have been and I likely would have had a commute instead of a sub 10 minute walk.

Instead I invested my money and was able to buy a house after the housing crash. For the house I purchased, I ultimately paid about half the original asking price.

If you are forced to pay someone else to live in a house, then you are on the losing side of the power dynamic.

The above anecdote was in the crazy real-estate market of coastal California. If you generalize for the rest of the country though, housing prices track inflation on average, so if you are leveraged 5:1 you can expect to gross 5x inflation on your house before you account for taxes, interest, insurance, and maintenance.

You may end up ahead of the market at that rate, but it's not exactly a sure thing. It's not unreasonable to say that the flexibility of being able to move will improve your lifestyle by more than the difference.

OTOH, we can say that 100% of the people who own houses have the means to own a house, but obviously much less than 100% of the people who rent have the means to buy a house, so the point is taken.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If buy-to-let is profitable, people will do it as a business... If people do it as a business, it'll drive the price of housing up even more, and since businesses have more capital than workers, the latter will be priced out (if lucky, they'll be able to afford a 90% LTV which will take decades to repay, but most workers cannot afford it on their own) If you care how much you pay, you care about who is extracting mon…

That does not follow - they are still fulfilling housing demand by renting it and more capital means more ability to build houses. The whole premise appears telological - landlords are intrinsically bad ergo everything they do will make the housing situation worse.

You're mixing up home builders with landlords.

The latter aren't fulfilling housing demand: they are capturing it by outcompeting people who cannot afford property prices (prices driven up by buy-to-let demand).

You say that landlords are intrinsically bad: lots of people agree with you on that... I stop short of it, since there's a minority of people for which renting is a preferable solution (at least temporarily) and nationalising the whole housing market is infeasible.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#244
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your proposed tax could be based on a "housing pressure index", basically squarefeet of livable space per person or people per squarefoot. This index would measure if there are lots of families living in cramped conditions or people living with room mates. If housing pressure is too high, tax corporations more.

> If housing pressure is too high, tax corporations more. It's always "tax more to solve problem X, as long as the target of that tax isn't me".

The target of the tax should be the party creating the problem so that they themselves can solve it.

Before you plant down your office in some densely populated area you make a cost benefit analysis. The housing problem is part of the cost. We've traditionally expected others to deal with it (read pay for it) but it doesn't work. Or put differently, we've failed employers in creating housing for their employees. So now that we've proven ourselves incompetent we might as well put the puzzle in front of those who created it.

It's easy to ignore your staff being unable to afford a roof over their head if you are relatively unaffected by it. The moment you get billed for it you can assign the task to someone and create a budget. If there are also subsidies we can expect corporations to attempt to solve the puzzle.

If they are unaffected by the problem it is really hard to get some solution going internally. Who knows, perhaps they are more competent than the rest of us? If not the number of jobs (demand) can be scaled down to fit supply.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#245

Isn't this what terrible public housing is already? Could it be less terrible or would it always devolve into a housing caste system because middle-/upper-classes would never use it? Set-asides for "affordable housing" in new developments are an absolute joke because there are very few units, they often have separate "servant-like" entrances, and may not be treated equally compared to other residents. Also, the root…

The root cause is way too little development relative to demand, orchestrated via zoning regulations. Wikipedia spells this out in detail for San Francisco [1]. > Since the 1960s, San Francisco and the surrounding Bay Area have enacted strict zoning regulations. Among other restrictions, San Francisco does not allow buildings over 40 feet tall in most of the city, and has passed laws making it easier for neighbors to…

Weird, I wonder what happened in America in the 1960s that would make so many people try to prevent others from moving into their neighborhoods.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#246
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally rent homes rather than just land. When zoning doesn't interfere, landowners maximize their profit by creating as many homes on each parcel of land as they believe they'll be able to find tenants for. A land tax might help, but it is silly to say that people wouldn't ever use their land productively without one.

NIMBY says otherwise.

Hence "When zoning doesn't interfere"

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#247
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NIMBY says otherwise.

Hence "When zoning doesn't interfere"

NIMBY is more than just zoning.

Or put another way: zoning isn't the only tool used by NIMBYs.

The problem is institutional, and is based in the same economics (inelastic supply of land) that makes a land-value tax so effective. If by any means possible an entity or consortium of them can restrict new development in an area, then as a whole their ability to capture consumer surplus value through economic rents increases.

This can be holding units off market, limiting density, restrictions on various utility hookups (typically sewerage and water), redlining, title insurance, homeowners' insurance, and more. I've found direct documentation of such practices dating to 1937, and long preceding that.

When recently the mechanized industries, particularly in metal, entered the housing field with the production of “prefabricated houses”, they were met by the resistance of property holders, especially of the banks, who hold mortgages on about 58 percent of all 1933 value of all urban real estate,149 and who fear that an influx of cheap modern dwellings would subtract substantially from the market value of existing structures.150 These banks and loan companies have been unwilling to finance prefabricated houses except in rare exceptions and then on a limited basis. Lumber companies and manufacturers of other materials which are being displaced in the production of prefabricated houses, have sought to prevent their construction through building-code restrictions and by organizing boycotts by dealers and building crafts. Moral and ethical rationalizations have been used against prefabricated houses. The director of the New England division of the American Institute of Architects in May 1934 attacked prefabricated houses as tending “to substitute a life of vagrancy for responsible citizenship in the community”.151 The author of an article entitled, “Houses Cannot be Built Like Automobiles”, who speaks on behalf of architects against prefabrication, argues plaintively, “Spiritual, mental, and physical well-being is enhanced always by the exercise and development of individualism, especially when related to the home and its environment. Housing that fails to respect these human values must be considered among the ‘chats’ to be discarded”.152

Planned public housing projects such as slum clearance which afford the most efficient methods of utilizing advanced technologies in the building industry, crash against the wall of vested private-property interest. They meet the combined opposition of the owners of obsolete buildings, that nonetheless are still profitable, of landowners who demand prohibitive prices, of holders of mortgages who fear a depreciation of housing values through the increase in available homes. Achievements in building technology lie sterile in the face of the opposition of these interests. It has been calculated that at the rate of replacement between 1921 and 1933 of homes and apartments, the American house will be in use 142 years.153 Such slow replacement, based on profits derived from old houses, impedes the building of new structures, however pressing the housing needs for the mass of the population of the United States may be.

Bernhard J. Stern, "Resistances to the Adoption of Technological Innovations", 1937 https://archive.org/details/technologicaltre1937unitrich/pag...

Markdown: https://rentry.co/szi3g

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like a lot of things. Most of them don't need to be legally enforced by the government. I just freely choose the things I like and people who like differently choose differently. Why does one specific form of housing need to be legally required instead of just letting people build the type of housing that they want?

The difference is that people don't care about one form of housing... they care about one form of neighborhood which necessarily includes many houses.

It still seems like you are forcing your preference on others.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#249
post #46
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a new york. Our subway is clean and regular, the bike share docks in my neighborhood are stocked and well-maintained. The busses, though sometimes crowded, run on time. Public transport works well when your city prioritizes it. I spent my youth living in places that don't and I literally cannot imagine going back.

> I live in a new york. Our subway is clean Litteraly where I stopped believing you. It's dirty. Only DC has a somehow-clean subway, which stands out as a nice exception to the rule.

Do you want me to send you a picture of my license with my home address? The subway, especially post-covid, is clean.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're on the nose here. The public ownership rental option goes nowhere without a capability to acquire (and retain) properties for the programme, and the ability to move unproductive or underproductive real estate into same. California's property tax situation (e.g., 1977's Proposition 13) makes this an all but unsolvable problem for that state. Short a countervailing proposition, a (state) constitutional a…

Banking seems like the best way to phrase this to prevent people from screaming about socialism.

Your insight has been growing on me each time I re-read it.
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