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Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

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Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#71

Post by sph »

joelbluminator wrote: post #70
astrowilson wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t reply directly to the comment below yours, so it will be as a side comment. I don’t think anyone is arguing Elixir isn’t niche, we are just explaining why Elixir gets attention on HN even though it is top 50 on TIOBE. HN itself is focused on certain domains and tends to be early adopters.

I think a lot of Elixir devs think or want to believe Elixir is bigger than it really is. That's what I understand from the guy I made the comment to. Now I don't enjoy popping people's bubbles but I think it's better for everyone to acknowledge the truth and then think how to deal with it.

> Now I don't enjoy popping people's bubbles but I think it's better for everyone to acknowledge the truth and then think how to deal with it.

How to deal with what? That Elixir isn't as popular, so I should tell my company to drop it? I should stop enjoying programming in it?

Sorry, sounds like you don't want to accept that Elixir is on the up, for whatever reason.

Yes, it's not super popular. Yes, people are being productive with it. I don't get the point of your comment.

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#72

Post by joelbluminator »

sph wrote: post #71
joelbluminator wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of Elixir devs think or want to believe Elixir is bigger than it really is. That's what I understand from the guy I made the comment to. Now I don't enjoy popping people's bubbles but I think it's better for everyone to acknowledge the truth and then think how to deal with it.

> Now I don't enjoy popping people's bubbles but I think it's better for everyone to acknowledge the truth and then think how to deal with it. How to deal with what? That Elixir isn't as popular, so I should tell my company to drop it? I should stop enjoying programming in it? Sorry, sounds like you don't want to accept that Elixir is on the up, for whatever reason. Yes, it's not super popular. Yes, people are being…

I won't tell you what to do with it, but the fact is Elixir is not on the up, it's very niche (nichier than even Rust is) and it's probably starting to decline already. Look at Linkedin jobs

Lisp - 142 Clojure - 700 Elixir - 828 Rust - 3160 Golang - 9205 Ruby - 24353 PHP - 68444 Java - 132606

So Elixir, at its peak, has about the amount of jobs Clojure has (never knew anyone using Clojure btw). That's quite a niche, ±800 jobs in the entire U.S is very very little. You might not care or have any action items from these facts, others may. As for companies - I would never choose something like Clojure/Elixir for my startup that's quite crazy considering the small eco system.

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#73

Post by astrowilson »

joelbluminator wrote: post #70
astrowilson wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t reply directly to the comment below yours, so it will be as a side comment. I don’t think anyone is arguing Elixir isn’t niche, we are just explaining why Elixir gets attention on HN even though it is top 50 on TIOBE. HN itself is focused on certain domains and tends to be early adopters.

I think a lot of Elixir devs think or want to believe Elixir is bigger than it really is. That's what I understand from the guy I made the comment to. Now I don't enjoy popping people's bubbles but I think it's better for everyone to acknowledge the truth and then think how to deal with it.

So what is your action plan? To keep commenting that Elixir is niche on many threads even though most people here aren’t saying otherwise?

And even if they think that’s true, do you think being antagonistic to them on forums is what is going to change their mind?

I remember a recent comment from you saying that Elixir has probably peaked without even crossing top 50 on TIOBE... and yet here we are.

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#74

Post by sph »

joelbluminator wrote: post #72
sph wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now I don't enjoy popping people's bubbles but I think it's better for everyone to acknowledge the truth and then think how to deal with it. How to deal with what? That Elixir isn't as popular, so I should tell my company to drop it? I should stop enjoying programming in it? Sorry, sounds like you don't want to accept that Elixir is on the up, for whatever reason. Yes, it's not super popular. Yes, people are being…

I won't tell you what to do with it, but the fact is Elixir is not on the up, it's very niche (nichier than even Rust is) and it's probably starting to decline already. Look at Linkedin jobs Lisp - 142 Clojure - 700 Elixir - 828 Rust - 3160 Golang - 9205 Ruby - 24353 PHP - 68444 Java - 132606 So Elixir, at its peak, has about the amount of jobs Clojure has (never knew anyone using Clojure btw). That's quite a niche,…

Sorry, where's your proof Elixir's at his peak? How can you tell from these numbers it's on the decline?

> I would never choose something like Clojure/Elixir

Then don't, nobody is making you. I still don't see why you want to stress so much Elixir is not a top language. From what I can tell, you have a bone to pick with the language and being confrontational with no discernible reason. Good day.

EDIT: checked your post history, you're definitely being a troll on purpose on most Elixir posts.

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#75

Post by astrowilson »

joelbluminator wrote: post #72
sph wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now I don't enjoy popping people's bubbles but I think it's better for everyone to acknowledge the truth and then think how to deal with it. How to deal with what? That Elixir isn't as popular, so I should tell my company to drop it? I should stop enjoying programming in it? Sorry, sounds like you don't want to accept that Elixir is on the up, for whatever reason. Yes, it's not super popular. Yes, people are being…

I won't tell you what to do with it, but the fact is Elixir is not on the up, it's very niche (nichier than even Rust is) and it's probably starting to decline already. Look at Linkedin jobs Lisp - 142 Clojure - 700 Elixir - 828 Rust - 3160 Golang - 9205 Ruby - 24353 PHP - 68444 Java - 132606 So Elixir, at its peak, has about the amount of jobs Clojure has (never knew anyone using Clojure btw). That's quite a niche,…

You keep bringing up “Elixir has peaked” but you don’t provide any concrete evidence for that. The only mention so far is Stack Overflow, which is not used by the community, and such was explained to you on separate occasions.

Someone mentioned Elixir has just passed top 50 on TIOBE - that’s growth. It also just crossed top 20 on GitHub by number of pull requests on Q1/2021.

I am not disputing it is niche. I am not disputing the job market is tiny. But for someone who mentions acknowledging the truth, you don’t seem to be very truthful on your claims the language has peaked, especially given the last time you claimed so, you used a milestone (Top 50 on TIOBE) that has been reached since then.

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#76

Post by joelbluminator »

astrowilson wrote: post #73
joelbluminator wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of Elixir devs think or want to believe Elixir is bigger than it really is. That's what I understand from the guy I made the comment to. Now I don't enjoy popping people's bubbles but I think it's better for everyone to acknowledge the truth and then think how to deal with it.

So what is your action plan? To keep commenting that Elixir is niche on many threads even though most people here aren’t saying otherwise? And even if they think that’s true, do you think being antagonistic to them on forums is what is going to change their mind? I remember a recent comment from you saying that Elixir has probably peaked without even crossing top 50 on TIOBE... and yet here we are.

Look if you wanna shoot your career in the face go ahead stick to Elixir, the rest of us have bills to pay.

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#77

Post by astrowilson »

joelbluminator wrote: post #76
astrowilson wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is your action plan? To keep commenting that Elixir is niche on many threads even though most people here aren’t saying otherwise? And even if they think that’s true, do you think being antagonistic to them on forums is what is going to change their mind? I remember a recent comment from you saying that Elixir has probably peaked without even crossing top 50 on TIOBE... and yet here we are.

Look if you wanna shoot your career in the face go ahead stick to Elixir, the rest of us have bills to pay.

That’s only an issue if you define your career by a single programming language... I don’t.

Regarding bills, I made my biggest salary bump after I jumped to Elixir, but I appreciate the concern.

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#78

Post by joelbluminator »

sph wrote: post #74
joelbluminator wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't tell you what to do with it, but the fact is Elixir is not on the up, it's very niche (nichier than even Rust is) and it's probably starting to decline already. Look at Linkedin jobs Lisp - 142 Clojure - 700 Elixir - 828 Rust - 3160 Golang - 9205 Ruby - 24353 PHP - 68444 Java - 132606 So Elixir, at its peak, has about the amount of jobs Clojure has (never knew anyone using Clojure btw). That's quite a niche,…

Sorry, where's your proof Elixir's at his peak? How can you tell from these numbers it's on the decline? > I would never choose something like Clojure/Elixir Then don't, nobody is making you. I still don't see why you want to stress so much Elixir is not a top language. From what I can tell, you have a bone to pick with the language and being confrontational with no discernible reason. Good day. EDIT: checked your po…

I don't think I was confrontational at all, I only listed facts on this thread. Other threads have zero relevance. Good day to you too!

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#79

Post by fastball »

mstipetic wrote: post #62
fastball wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Facebook spends engineering effort to work on React, it's not out of the kindness of their heart, and that's ok. It's still productive and an accomplishment, it's just productive for a reason that pertains to their business. It is the same here. This tool helps the adoption of Elixir, running Elixir is their business, so yay! But the comment I was replying to implied this is somehow entirely separate from their…

FB has thousands of engineers. It's not that often that a small group of people can both keep the lights running financially and also develop fully featured massive libraries. I'd say that counts as a very productive company.

Right, but again my point is that developing this fully-featured library helps keep the lights on. The two things are not separate as you keep implying.

Not disagreeing that they are productive and accomplishing a lot.

Re: Livebook: A collaborative and interactive code notebook for Elixir

#80

Post by joelbluminator »

astrowilson wrote: post #75
joelbluminator wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't tell you what to do with it, but the fact is Elixir is not on the up, it's very niche (nichier than even Rust is) and it's probably starting to decline already. Look at Linkedin jobs Lisp - 142 Clojure - 700 Elixir - 828 Rust - 3160 Golang - 9205 Ruby - 24353 PHP - 68444 Java - 132606 So Elixir, at its peak, has about the amount of jobs Clojure has (never knew anyone using Clojure btw). That's quite a niche,…

You keep bringing up “Elixir has peaked” but you don’t provide any concrete evidence for that. The only mention so far is Stack Overflow, which is not used by the community, and such was explained to you on separate occasions. Someone mentioned Elixir has just passed top 50 on TIOBE - that’s growth. It also just crossed top 20 on GitHub by number of pull requests on Q1/2021. I am not disputing it is niche. I am not d…

The problem with Elixir is it's too small to get good data on (I'm not being mean, that's the truth). Tiobe has trends only for the top 20 languages so can't use that.

The best I've got is Stackoverflow survey (are you saying Elixir devs don't use Stackoverflow at all? I find it bizarre. Even if you use Elixir forum a modern dev has questions on many things he needs answered (css, javascript, sql etc).

So please compare https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#most-popular-... With https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#most-popular-... Elixir was dropped from the list. That's definitely a sign of decline. Now it could be that on absolute terms Elixir is keeping it's usage but only dropping on relative terms but I find it a bit hard to believe. I have a feeling Elixir devs who look for the next gig use other tech more often than not.

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