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Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

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Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#41

Post by forgotpwd16 »

kaba0 wrote: post #24

I don’t understand this shitting on open source software. Criticism would be okay, but a click-bait article with some easily debunked falsities on a not even released version, just seems to be in bad faith. > Gnome doesn't show you the overview of your open apps or any application shortcuts on its desktop. You need to open Activities - an extra mouse click - before they are shown It does, that is like the core featur…

>It does, that is like the core feature of gnome

You missed the point. They meant there's no always-on-display taskbar.

>It can be set in Tweaks

>Gnome Tweaks

Probably, but should you "need a SEPARATE application" (as they say) to set something that should be default? That you can configure those things using third-party software doesn't take away from the point the author is making, and if anything enhances it since some should've been the default.

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#42

Post by pjerem »

ldng wrote: post #26
kaba0 wrote: post #24

I don’t understand this shitting on open source software. Criticism would be okay, but a click-bait article with some easily debunked falsities on a not even released version, just seems to be in bad faith. > Gnome doesn't show you the overview of your open apps or any application shortcuts on its desktop. You need to open Activities - an extra mouse click - before they are shown It does, that is like the core featur…

You don't understand ? I don't know, maybe a decade of not listening to its actual user instead of pouring ton of work for fantasied ones ? Responsive design and Tablet were the rage and going to replace every other computer. Fast-forward, has was predictable, it did not. Gnome needs to go back to the drawing board and revise assumptions made 10 years ago. And, no, keyboard shortcut do not compensate bad design. If G…

Maybe, since Gnome is a Free software, the Gnome developers team does not owe anything to anyone ? I really like Gnome choices, but if I change my mind on a future update, who am I to rant against a project that works "for free"?

Some years ago, I was myself a "really opinionated user" and well ... Linux doesn't lack of mature opinionated DE : you can do barely anything you want with XFCE, MATE and KDE.

Also, I really don't understand this "touchscreen oriented Gnome". There is nothing in Gnome that is meant to be used in touch mode. Gnome ergonomics are totally built around the Super key (and now, touchpad gestures) once you get this, you understand all the gnome _desktop_ paradigm.

It's really inspired by OSX where every workflow action can be done with touchpad gestures and keyboard (without moving the pointer, which is only useful inside applications). Once you get this paradigm, there is no way to go back.

I really think also that Gnome was betting for better touchpad support on linux years and years ago, but it looks like we had to wait for Wayland to have something decent.

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#43

Post by pjerem »

seniorivn wrote: post #38
alex_duf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, the angry crowd who doesn't use it stops criticising an opinionated desktop, and leave the users who happen to agree with said opinions use that desktop. I love gnome the way it is. I don't minimise Windows, I love the launcher, the keyboard shortcuts make so much more sense than osx, and it's not the sluggish monster everyone seems to think it is.

the valid criticism of opinionated gnome desktop is that gnome is being redesigned right now with no particular reason, just highly opinionated developers feel like it. That's weird from a gnome user perspective(the one that agreed with previous iteration of opinionated work flow).

Well, that's the project of those "highly opinionated developers". They work for free, and they really sleep well if you prefer to install XFCE or create a fork of the previous iterations of Gnome.

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#44

Post by forgotpwd16 »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #30

I'd be really interested in a detailed review of Gnome by someone who actually wants this model of interaction. I, for one, do not care about it so have no slightest inclination to bash Gnome or, to be honest, even try it by this point. But I don't mind to read why it's great for someone else. If you want classic desktop, there's always LXQT, MATE, XFCE, OpenBox, JWM or even KDE.

Not exactly a review, but there's a page on GNOME Shell design available on GNOME wiki.

https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeShell/Design

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#45

Post by wander_homer »

kaba0 wrote: post #33
dymax78 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .....but a click-bait article with some easily debunked falsities on a not even released version, just seems to be in bad faith. This article was written 5-days after Gnome 40s official release. > Gnome doesn't show you the overview of your open apps or any application shortcuts on its desktop. You need to open Activities - an extra mouse click - before they are shown >>It does, that is like the core feature of gno…

> It absolutely does not, and this authors complaint is mirrored in every other review of Gnome 40. We are either talking about something different, or I don’t know. If you press Super or swipe 3 fingers up you get the preview of every app on every desktop. On the picture in the article, the author has no window open (as apparent from the dock not having any “open” icons)

That's precisely what the author wrote, you just replaced "an extra mouse click" with "press Super or swipe 3 fingers up", hence the additional step to display all running applications still remains with your solution.

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#46

Post by kaba0 »

wander_homer wrote: post #45
kaba0 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It absolutely does not, and this authors complaint is mirrored in every other review of Gnome 40. We are either talking about something different, or I don’t know. If you press Super or swipe 3 fingers up you get the preview of every app on every desktop. On the picture in the article, the author has no window open (as apparent from the dock not having any “open” icons)

That's precisely what the author wrote, you just replaced "an extra mouse click" with "press Super or swipe 3 fingers up", hence the additional step to display all running applications still remains with your solution.

And if you do that, then you have every window’s overview there, so what you and the author writes is false.

Would you like a screenshot of it, because that is what I see precisely in front of me?

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#47

Post by pjmlp »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #35
pjmlp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because for better or worse, Gtk is considered the GNU/Linux UI toolkit, so it means while one might use KDE, every cross platform framework (with Qt's exception) sees Gtk as the "native" GNU/Linux UI toolkit.

And I use GTK applications just fine on my KDE desktop. The DE you use does not dictate which applications you run.

It is a matter of taste, nothing against KDE, or the minority role it currently holds on Gtk dominated landscape.

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#48

Post by pjmlp »

nly wrote: post #34
pjmlp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because for better or worse, Gtk is considered the GNU/Linux UI toolkit, so it means while one might use KDE, every cross platform framework (with Qt's exception) sees Gtk as the "native" GNU/Linux UI toolkit.

Sadly Qt 5, due to the Qt Company pushing FOSS "freeloaders" on to bleeding edge and unstable versions of Qt 6[0], is becoming less and less viable for non-commercial, cross-platform app development. Arch Linux now compiles Qt from KDEs fork[1] The only ray of sunshine here is that, with Qt 5.15 being the last 5.x release, we may eventually see all distros shipping it instead of the horrible version fragmentation you…

I agree with the decision against freeloaders.

Too many people expect to be paid for their work, while not giving anything to upstream only entitlement of what should be provided as free beer.

For those there is GPL license for Qt.

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#49

Post by wander_homer »

kaba0 wrote: post #46
wander_homer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's precisely what the author wrote, you just replaced "an extra mouse click" with "press Super or swipe 3 fingers up", hence the additional step to display all running applications still remains with your solution.

And if you do that, then you have every window’s overview there, so what you and the author writes is false. Would you like a screenshot of it, because that is what I see precisely in front of me?

I don't need a screenshot, I have it running here. By default GNOME does not display all running applications on the desktop, you always have to do an extra step (mouse click, hot corner, key press, swipe) and activate the Activities screen, which is not necessary on basically any other desktop system, and that is precisely what the author complained about.

Re: Gnome 40 – The anti-desktop desktop

#50

Post by nly »

pjmlp wrote: post #48
nly wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly Qt 5, due to the Qt Company pushing FOSS "freeloaders" on to bleeding edge and unstable versions of Qt 6[0], is becoming less and less viable for non-commercial, cross-platform app development. Arch Linux now compiles Qt from KDEs fork[1] The only ray of sunshine here is that, with Qt 5.15 being the last 5.x release, we may eventually see all distros shipping it instead of the horrible version fragmentation you…

I agree with the decision against freeloaders. Too many people expect to be paid for their work, while not giving anything to upstream only entitlement of what should be provided as free beer. For those there is GPL license for Qt.

It's not about money. There are plenty of FOSS non-profit software projects that want to be able to distribute their apps and not have to deal with all this fragmentation.

If you develop a QML app and want it to compile and run properly on all distros out there you need to code use a very low common denominator version of Qt and the associated QML components (versioning for which is only checked at runtime).

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