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Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

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Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#111

Post by simion314 »

jryle70 wrote: post #73
simion314 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't like to be manipulated by media. So for this case I am just saying be aware not to be a tool/pawn is some big player's game, I suggest you either do more digging , wait for some real evidence - but downvote if the mention of the Bloomberg fake article or innocent until proven guilty is a something wrong that needs to be hidden.

You're contradicting yourself here, as you don't want to be manipulated but are already convinced that this is part of anti-China propaganda. Also, innocent until proven guilty should only apply to regular people, not state actors. Many historical events are only declassified after 50, 60 years, or never at all. Believe a story or not is your judgement, but asking for proofs are either naive, or just looking for excu…

I mean the title and the content do not match . So the title was created to push a certain agenda , so what? is it propaganda or just the old pure evil capitalism that pushed the editor to change the title into some false accusations?

I did not said that Huawei is not spying, mayb ethey do but I am still waiting for the evidence. Similar on how I wait for evidence that Google is reading our politicians emails and blackmailing them - is not enough to hear some conspiracy and then upvote it like a tool because I hate Huawei or Google.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#112

Post by boomboomsubban »

AlphaSite wrote: post #31
boomboomsubban wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though I can't read the actual report, this article does not support your claims. >Apparently also a list of numbers under surveillance by Dutch intelligence was found in possession of Huawei. Which was clearly well beyond those boundaries Wouldn't the ones running the network need to know which numbers were under surveillance to provide the intelligence agency access?

It could be done at arms length through an API. Then it would become an issue of reading data they shouldn’t be.

Wouldn't that API then just give someone else (presumably the intelligence agency) unrestrained access to all phone lines? Someone outside should be responsible for providing access, you can argue Huawei shouldn't have been chosen but I find it hard to blame them for doing their job.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#113

Post by imiric »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #80
emodendroket wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel we need to read all these stories with a skeptical eye because, frankly, Huawei's become a political football, and there is a very strong motivation to cast events in the most unfavorable light possible by officials who are working backwards from the conclusion. Perhaps they do have some kind of spying master plan but I have found a lot of the fanfare for these stories hasn't held up to scrutiny.

I agree that there is a lot of spin on these stories: efforts to paint bad and sloppy network security decisions as evidence of actual malice. I am sympathetic to the national security agencies who are likely driving this reporting, though. Giving untrusted foreign companies access to your communications infrastructure is generally a bad idea, and the evidence (from Western countries’ own actions) is that this kind o…

> Right now all of the incentives for that company are to gain the trust of customers during these early stages when everyone is looking for a reason to throw up protectionist barriers.

What makes you think these are "early stages"? AFAIK many telcos already use Huawei 4G equipment, though I can't find actual numbers for that. I'd say Huawei/China is already well positioned to abuse any backdoor access they have. The move to 5G could only expand this.

KPN is obviously in the wrong here since they can't prove whether there was unauthorized access or not, and speculation articles like this don't help. In any case, it doesn't seem like a good idea to give untethered access to a company accused of IP theft time and time again[1]. Whether all those are PR smear campaigns or there's a real cause for concern is difficult to judge as an outsider, but given China's track record, I'm inclined to believe there's some truth in them.

[1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/05/25/huawei-ac...

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#114

Post by arp242 »

londons_explore wrote: post #15

I "could have" wiretapped KPN when I worked in the networks department. Without any evidence that any wiretaps actually occurred, I'm afraid this is just fearmongering...

Well, yes; but this is missing the context that you don't have a history of doing so. By now there is plenty of evidence that China does engage is large-scale hacking campaigns to steal trade secrets, and before anyone brings on the "but whadabout the US?", the scope is much larger (US is mostly focused on security, not trade secrets) and the US has imperfect but at least some oversight.

Was this actually used to gain unauthorized access to information? Maybe, maybe not. It was still bad to grant this access in the first place, and arguably the only reason it didn't lead to unauthorized access is because action was taken. "We let a known serial killer loose but he didn't kill anyone" is still pretty bad.

Also that this was kept secret for 12 years doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#115

Post by camillomiller »

ajross wrote: post #5

The spin on this situation is dumb. What it amounts to is that KPN hired Huawei on a contract basis to administer its equipment, and as a result those contract administrators had... administrator privileges on the Huawei equipment. Now, obviously telco equipment can be used for spying, but there's absolutely no allegation of wrongdoing here at all. If there is any finger to point, it's at KPN for hiring an untrusted…

Well, what you just read is a counter-propaganda piece, so that’s no surprise that it was spun that way.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#116

Post by NicoJuicy »

ajross wrote: post #5

The spin on this situation is dumb. What it amounts to is that KPN hired Huawei on a contract basis to administer its equipment, and as a result those contract administrators had... administrator privileges on the Huawei equipment. Now, obviously telco equipment can be used for spying, but there's absolutely no allegation of wrongdoing here at all. If there is any finger to point, it's at KPN for hiring an untrusted…

That's not what it's saying ( i speak dutch)

First of all, it's not a spinoff. KPN his the report because it was afraid for it's existence.

Second is that Huawei could listen to KPN'S internal communications ( = their network) that includes a lot of government calls.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#117

Post by NicoJuicy »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #107
crote wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original source[0] definitely supports those claims. "Ongecontroleerde en ongeautoriseerde toegang vanuit China heeft na 28 oktober 2009 daadwerkelijk plaatsgevonden" which translates to "Uncontrolled and unauthorized access from China actually took place after October 28, 2009" > Wouldn't the ones running the network need to know which numbers were under surveillance to provide the intelligence agency access? No…

>Uncontrolled and unauthorized access from China actually took place after October 28, 2009" That does not state Huawei is responsible for that event, it could be the security testing team.

Hackers could always claim they were security testing :)

If that would have been the case, it would have been the first thing they'd mention though.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#118

Post by krageon »

ajross wrote: post #5

The spin on this situation is dumb. What it amounts to is that KPN hired Huawei on a contract basis to administer its equipment, and as a result those contract administrators had... administrator privileges on the Huawei equipment. Now, obviously telco equipment can be used for spying, but there's absolutely no allegation of wrongdoing here at all. If there is any finger to point, it's at KPN for hiring an untrusted…

> untrusted contractor

As far as I'm aware, practically every European telco hires Huawei engineers to maintain their infrastructure in this way. It's therefore not reasonable to call them an untrusted contractor, as they are evidently very trusted.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#119

Post by boomboomsubban »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #117
boomboomsubban wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Uncontrolled and unauthorized access from China actually took place after October 28, 2009" That does not state Huawei is responsible for that event, it could be the security testing team.

Hackers could always claim they were security testing :) If that would have been the case, it would have been the first thing they'd mention though.

It was? Those words came from the report done by the security testing team.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#120

Post by greatgib »

Even if you read with good intention, and consider that the backdoor/workaround was not used, here you have the proof that Huawei is caught lying publicly.

See:

https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefield-tech/it-networks/5g/202...

>

The report on KPN proves that they have the "capability" and they they know it!

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