Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

mobile.nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 337 posts

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#111

Post by anigbrowl »

hugh4life wrote: post #90
anigbrowl wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, and have updated it to say 'project' lest people get the wrong idea. I was rather upset by the sweeping declaration above that I was committing a felony, why I think should be deleted by the author since it's totally unfounded.

You and the idiots who voted me down still don't get it... and your edit changes nothing. You can't act as an agent of employment for someone you know is illegal. "If anyone is interested in investing in a project to legally provide work opportunities for undocumented immigrants"

Your assumption about the point of this project is incorrect, and you don't seem like a person who's interested in having a polite conversation about this or any other subject.

In a nutshell, however, there are arguments that people who are brought to the US as children may have more legal rights than is commonly supposed by those who are unfamiliar with immigration law. You would agree, I hope, that if the law actually allows something and most people had simply failed to notice it did so, that it would be legal for people to take advantage of that. Given the complexity of immigration law and of the institutional structures surrounding it, it is not very surprising that loopholes abound and are often overlooked. However, using such a loophole may still require a willingness to go through several years of expensive litigation. Suing the government is not a trivial undertaking.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#112

Post by fastfinner »

fastfinner wrote: post #96
starwed wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just find it weird that everyone regards becoming a citizen by birth as so much fairer than becoming a citizen by sneaking in.

Oh on a philosophical level it is quite unfair. It's not fair at all that all humans are not regarded as equals. It's really unfair that I should be withheld from visiting or living on a piece of the planet because there happens the be a group of people on it that made a "nation" and the "nation" has invisible "borders" and the "borders" are by "law" not penetrable by people from my "nation". But such is the case. If…

May I learn the reason of the down-vote? I am answering to the issue of the fairness of citizenship-by-birth raised in the parent. I draw a distinction between entrenched inequality in world order and the more amenable inequalities.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#113

Post by lupatus »

lupatus wrote: post #85
lutorm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if you suddenly were to find out that you were actually illegally present in the U.S., you'd be a good, law-abiding noncitizen and cheerfully go back to the country you don't know?

Yup. :) Nations are basically large families. Imagine you spent your whole life thinking you were part of Family A. But then, you discovered you weren't biologically part of Family A or actually adopted by Family A, instead Family A kidnapped you. Would you be inclined to stay with Family A, or would you seek out Family P - your biological family? Similarly, would you want to stay with Nation A or go seek out Nation…

For those downvoting this comment, why?

Do you disagree that nations are basically large families? Am I in the wrong to want to hypothetically seek out my biological family or nation of origin?

Or, do you disagree with my viewpoint and want me to shut up?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#114

Post by kelnos »

reddweb wrote: post #104
geezer wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If law is unjust, you change the law. It has happened in American plenty of times. Hell, America was founded in part because an unjust law was imposed on us.

unjust to whom? lets open borders ? vargas, when he was smuggled into this country, was not "special case" at that time. This is a typical, hallmark fraud case. The coyote, fake passport, fake student visa, fake greencard the list goes on. you want the Law to be just in above case? i am just saying there needs to be punishment and accountability. Believe me, the US immigration law is lot better, just and clever than…

But in this case, punish whom? Vargas? He was 12 when all this happened, had no say in the matter, and didn't really know what was going on until he turned 16. What should he have done then? Turned himself in as an illegal immigrant?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#115

Post by lupatus »

fastfinner wrote: post #102
anigbrowl wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is illegal, I agree. But while I wouldn't do that, I don't feel able to condemn him for dealing with a situation not of his own making. The government does not offer any procedure for a person in his position to regularize their legal status (eg do XYZ and pay a fine in restitution, which will allow you to apply for permanent residency on the same basis as a new visitor). Absent a way to live legally, he has lit…

"Absent a way to live legally, he has little other choice." No he has a choice and he chooses to risk being busted and live in the land of opportunities. He can live legally. He can choose to go back to the native country of his parents and start a legal life there. He has graduated from a university in the US. He has done work in the US. He is much better off resume-wise than many of his peers.

Seriously! This guy would probably kick a$$ in the Philippines.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#116

Post by kelnos »

lutorm wrote: post #94
kelnos wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or do the opposite: make it so easy to immigrate legally that few want or need to do it illegally.

Well, that's true. But it's hard to see how that would not be very disruptive.

A lot of things are disruptive. Doesn't make them bad or undesirable. We talk about "disruptive" new technologies here on HN all the time and how the best progress is made by disrupting the status quo. I won't claim that all disruption is good, but who's to say a little disruption in the immigration world wouldn't be?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#117

Post by fastfinner »

lutorm wrote: post #74
lupatus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But, he was not a minor or forced against his will when he decided to check the citizen box on the I-9, or when he decided to pursue a writing career in New York instead of Manilla, or every time he decided as an adult to stay in the USA while knowing he was here illegally.

I suppose if you suddenly were to find out that you were actually illegally present in the U.S., you'd be a good, law-abiding noncitizen and cheerfully go back to the country you don't know?

If a person's answer to this question is "no, I'd stay, even after I realize that I am breaking the laws of the country", I don't know how that person can expect sympathy after being busted (or "coming out").

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#118

Post by fastfinner »

lupatus wrote: post #64
lupatus wrote: post #49

It's really courageous of him to come ahead with his story. I really hope he gets shipped back to the Philippines. Go ahead and call me a xenophobe now. Whatev. I think it is in poor form for the NYT to print this manipulative article that tries to make me feel bad for the gay, minority, do-gooder author and excuse his years of criminally fraudulent behavior. Sure, call me heartless. But, this guy is cheating you, an…

He has knowingly used fraud for years to get work, educational, and lifesytle opportunities that would have otherwise gone to people legally allowed to work, study, and reside here. Paying taxes or writing keen articles does not excuse this fact. Hence, he is cheating[1]. [1] Wikipedia defines cheating as, "... the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation." That seems to be a accurate summary of…

Exactly. Paying taxes does not make the situation fair. All his life he has "filled a spot" of an opportunity that would have otherwise been available to someone else. His achievements ("the end") do not justify the means.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#119

Post by kelnos »

fastfinner wrote: post #105
phillmv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the people we should have compassion for are the people who are trying to do things the right way but running into headaches. Those are the people we should make things easier for, not the people who are willing to break the law to get what they want. >I don't understand why it's so controversial among the pro-immigration crowd to say that people shouldn't come here illegally. It's because the official green…

"Kicking out the people who are already in the country doesn't achieve anything other than waste more money and ruin more lives." It achieves fairness about who gets in. Rules may need to be revised, etc. No arguments here. But while the revision is taking place or not taking place the rules need to be followed .

If life were fair we'd all be living in luxury and wouldn't have to worry about this immigration crap. But life isn't fair. Laws aren't always fair. What inherent rule of the universe states that breaking an unfair law is wrong? Sure, you risk getting punished if you're caught. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try, and that doesn't mean I'm not going to be sympathetic if I happen to agree with your point of view, and wish that there can be an outcome where you don't get punished.

What positive benefit would come about due to kicking Vargas out of the country? Those on his side will just be angry, and the xenophobes will just remain as they are, satisfied that they ruined a life.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#120

Post by reddweb »

kelnos wrote: post #114
reddweb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unjust to whom? lets open borders ? vargas, when he was smuggled into this country, was not "special case" at that time. This is a typical, hallmark fraud case. The coyote, fake passport, fake student visa, fake greencard the list goes on. you want the Law to be just in above case? i am just saying there needs to be punishment and accountability. Believe me, the US immigration law is lot better, just and clever than…

But in this case, punish whom? Vargas? He was 12 when all this happened, had no say in the matter, and didn't really know what was going on until he turned 16. What should he have done then? Turned himself in as an illegal immigrant?

That argument can be taken advantage of in lot of situations. I empatize with vargas but unfortunately, as the lawyer said, he needs to get back in line - legally.

He committed 70% of the fraud after turning 16. He is not kid anymore, and be responsible for his situation/actions.

What about legal alien kids who come (sent by parents) here legally for undergrad studies...pay upto 100K in tuition fees, and be sent back if can't get job visa or other legal immigration problems? Wouldn't you argue, this kid knows nothing , he was shown the american dream, he deserves greencard/citizenship?

Lot of other scenarios can be argued.

There is law for a reason, and 300 millions American citizens and legal aliens abide by it. Do you want make all of them feel idiots?

Post reply on HN