Live data from Hacker News

Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

theatlantic.com

131–140 of 262 posts

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#131
post #97

Land tax is a must but I have an even funnier idea. Tax corporations per employee and adjust the amount to the housing shortage. Make the tax truly terrifying if there is a big shortage. If you really must run your shop in that ultra expensive location you just pay for it. If you cant afford it you simply do not have what it takes, the area is not for you and you should leave. Make room for a business that belongs OR…

Taxing new hires? Sounds like a great way to chase jobs away.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#132
post #20
post #8

Anyone who has seen how public owned goods turn out would realize how much of a bad idea it is: for a budget similar to the DoD, you may get wait lines like in a DMV, with as much administrative fiddling as the NASA, with a quality of service as good as the DHS. If you are lucky, you may get as many choices as their are public transportation option in the midwest. Thanks but no thanks.

Care to provide some evidence to back up your claim or are you just on the red scare train.

Well, I’m straining to think of service offered by a Bay Area govt that is well run and efficient.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#133
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And competition drives it down.

In the case of land, no, competition drives attempts to curtail supply, in which case the value goes up further . Which is why something that works the way a Georgian land value tax is designed is ultimately necessary.

People generally rent homes rather than just land. When zoning doesn't interfere, landowners maximize their profit by creating as many homes on each parcel of land as they believe they'll be able to find tenants for. A land tax might help, but it is silly to say that people wouldn't ever use their land productively without one.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Habitat For Humanity[1] works in a similar way. At least in my town, families help to build or renovate the home they move into, and their mortgage payments are capped at a reasonable percentage of their income (I think 30%). 1: https://www.habitat.org/about/faq#homeownership

HfH typically provides the mortgage with a 0% interest rate also. They are a tremendous program that should be scaled up.

Like any limited (by funds or numbers) program HfH can do great good but it can also turn away those form whom it wouldn’t work (not capable of meeting the requirements/sticking it out).

Handling EVERY case is much more difficult (not that we shouldn’t expand HfH-style programs). A multitude of solutions are needed and trying to limit the types is part of the problem.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term for an opportunistic escalation in pricing (of a critical commodity) due to a rapid-onset shortage is price gouging. Like many US markets, local rental prices have ~doubled in the last two years. As in every case of price gouging, sufficient supply would have prevented the opportunism that is presently causing broad harm. Huzzah for supply and demand, I guess.

The alternative to "price gouging" is imposing some form of price controls. Since housing cannot be created out of thin air, that means some people will get lucky and everyone else will have to do without. I'm not sure that's any less a harm.

The alternative to price gouging is not price controls (that just redirects the pain into shortages instead). It's increasing supply. Housing can actually be built quite quickly - it's the bureaucratic stuff (permits, zoning, etc), which makes it take forever.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People cannot actually choose the location, without giving up their work. "You can only find work in a big metropolitan center that demands 60% of your salary in rent? Though luck..." Let's say that you work in London... if you are 1h away from your work, you're still likely in zone 3 or 4, which is pretty expensive. Your choices then are: a 1h30/2h commute (each way) or giving up on having a place only for yourself,…

Yes, we should probably treat land as much more of a public good, especially in cities. The true value of land has much more to do with the services nearby: jobs, shops, parks, emergency services. The majority of tax should be based on the land value, independent of the cost of structures built on that land. A single-family home (whether it be a shack or a million dollar mansion) in a city center with high land value…

> Yes, we should probably treat land as much more of a public good

This is the central idea of Georgism, and it extends neatly to other things which are not the product of anyone's labour, like natural resources, pollution, or even issuance of credit (currently the banks have a monopoly on the power to create money/credit).

It's all very interesting, a nice balance which retains the good features of markets but prevents or at least limits the harmful stuff: rent-seeking leeches, pure speculation divorced from fundamentals, etc.

> especially in cities

This reminds me of the “Lockean proviso”:

Nor was this appropriation of any parcel of land, by improving it, any prejudice to any other man, since there was still enough and as good left, and more than the yet unprovided could use.

That is to say, taking natural resources, labouring, and keeping the profits of that activity, is only legitimate insofar as there is still “enough of it, and as good, in left in common for others”.

> The true value of land has much more to do with the services nearby

Oh absolutely! If a road is built, shops, the neighbourhood improved, schools, businesses, jobs, and therefore the desirability of your land increases... it's you that has to pay society back for what it has given you! It's not the resale value of your land that should rise.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#137
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah you can buy your dream house in the middle of nowhere for 200k but if you're a teacher, nurse or electrician job opportunities are likely scarce. People don't just live in cities for the opera.

You listed 3 occupations where opportunities aren’t that scarce and every town needs those people.

[citation needed]

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#138
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Subsidies for historic populations without price controls would be a windfall for landlords How is it a windfall for landlords? If the rent prices are going up, they will be making the money regardless of whether the renter is paying for it or the government is paying for some of it. If your point is that a subsidy will shift demand and increase the price, that is exactly what we want! A price signal to the market…

> I think there is some level of societal interest in preventing displacement, Why? ‘Historic populations’ is a euphemism for Black in most cases. In most large cities I’ve lived in, there is typically a section of town plagued by bad schools, high crime, bad infrastructure, and crumbling residences, and it is usually monoethnic. Why is this a good thing? It seems that whites in the more affluent areas and suburbs ar…

Those neighborhoods are often targeted for redevelopment the moment the ghetto starts improving, and as the ethnic residents are often renters, they have little recourse when it begins.

See: gentrification.

Re: Public-ownership rental as a third option to renting or owning a house

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author's proposal is laid out in his book, The Affordable City . Unlike many policy books, the table of contents, available at the publisher's site, is both detailed and descriptive, and does convey the outline of his proposals: https://islandpress.org/books/affordable-city The ebook is a $5 download, which I'd strongly encourage for the curious.

$3.82 for the ebook on Amazon.

Feed the chart.

https://nitter.cc/ShaneDPhillips/status/1380643298612715520#...

Post reply on HN