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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#621

Post by jokethrowaway »

Aeolun wrote: post #324
Sebb767 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But using your money to buy happiness after your ten hour work Saturday is not going to be a big success, either. Yes, it does not replace money, but for some people it is worth more to feel happy at work than to receive a bit more money.

Adequate money + fun > Lots of money + miserable

That depends.

If the extra money is enough you may have enough to become your own boss after some time spent being miserable.

I've been quite miserable whenever I worked as an employee (I carefully picked the companies I worked for and I don't really have many complaints - I just can't stand company politics, power plays and stupid decisions from above) but I used my time as an employee to save some money and use paternity leave to build a family. Also, as a sleepless parent, my brain is not in top shape and I'm ok with doing what I need to do to collect a paycheck.

Now, those 5 years being miserable will translate to buying a property in cash somewhere with nice weather, lowering our expenses tremendously (more than half is rent right now) and allowing us to live off some almost passive revenue stream (think, 1 man micro-saas). We're planning to use the free time to build more products and edge ourselves against the risk of not being able to afford our lifestyle and have to go the employee route again.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#622

Post by marktangotango »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #375
watwut wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being strict and enforcing rules with one company while being tolerant and forgiving with others is how real world corruption often works. And for that matter, how bias in general works. Or nepotism.

Absolutely. Please lead me not into temptation with regards to giving me yet one more reason to bitch about how much it sucks to be me with regards to sexism on HN. But in this case real corruption would be a former employee of theirs regularly bending the rules for them. If no one else was chronically a day late and dollar short and expecting accommodation and understanding for it, telling them "no" and expecting th…

I'm surprised at the pollyanna-ish dismay on display here that this type of behavior is NOT common place. It's literally the way the world works, and has worked forever. Every middling manager, bureaucrat, or supervisor over anyone has always lorded it over others and used their influence to build little fiefdoms. Hell I deal with three of them in my job everyday. I personally think the reaction here, to your story, is a manifestation of techs exaltation of "meritocracy" and a rejection of the notion that, their ability, skills, technical knowledge maybe don't really matter that much in the end. Horrifying thought to many technologist. Just my opinion.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#623

Post by rorykoehler »

emodendroket wrote: post #537
rorykoehler wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is foolish to include you bonus in your financial planning.

In many cases your variable comp ends up being like half or more of what you're paid which makes it hard to really adhere to that in reality.

I meant monthly expenses by financial planning. You shouldn't be missing bill payments because you only got base. Of course you will include it in your broader financial plan.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#624

Post by DoreenMichele »

marktangotango wrote: post #622
DoreenMichele wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Please lead me not into temptation with regards to giving me yet one more reason to bitch about how much it sucks to be me with regards to sexism on HN. But in this case real corruption would be a former employee of theirs regularly bending the rules for them. If no one else was chronically a day late and dollar short and expecting accommodation and understanding for it, telling them "no" and expecting th…

I'm surprised at the pollyanna-ish dismay on display here that this type of behavior is NOT common place. It's literally the way the world works, and has worked forever. Every middling manager, bureaucrat, or supervisor over anyone has always lorded it over others and used their influence to build little fiefdoms. Hell I deal with three of them in my job everyday. I personally think the reaction here, to your story,…

I personally think the reaction here, to your story, is a manifestation of techs exaltation of "meritocracy" and a rejection of the notion that, their ability, skills, technical knowledge maybe don't really matter that much in the end. Horrifying thought to many technologist.

I can imagine that being a factor in some of the reactions here. It would fit with things I've read wrt sometimes very competent people have trouble keeping a job because they are basically assholes and no one wants to work with them and no one can seem to get them the memo.

Some people want to believe that like House, as long as they are simply brilliant, people will put up with their crap.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#625

Post by emodendroket »

74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #591
emodendroket wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, of course it is. But you also spend a lot of time there, so I don't think it's unreasonable to try to find something you can be proud of delivering.

Sure. As long as you're able to deal with nobody else sharing that pride, expressing gratitude, offer a reward or even notice your feat. Then you're set. If not - you're up for a rude awakening many years later realizing that all those things you were proud of didn't make any actual difference - not even for yourself.

Hm. I'd say that wasn't my experience so far -- plenty of gratitude and recognition. But I kind of wish I would have focused more on things I was actually excited to work on instead of prioritizing stability above everything else.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#626

Post by angarg12 »

adamcharnock wrote: post #57

This reminds me of my first job as a developer, age 21. I haven’t shared it before, so here goes... There was a ‘crunch’ coming up at work (i.e. IMHO, bad planning) and so the boss offered everyone a bonus if they performed well. However, the older employees warned me that the criteria for such bonuses were often ill-defined. I therefore pushed for clear achievable objectives. These pre-agreed objectives were promise…

Not sure if intentional, but this is exactly the opposite of the message of the article.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#627

Post by Viliam1234 »

emodendroket wrote: post #532
decebalus1 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

I don't doubt you can make a large co-op. What I do doubt is that working at a large co-op is much different from working at any other large employer (I guess unless you're on the executive team).

At Mondragon, employees can choose their managers by vote (the corporation is run like a democracy inside), perhaps that can make some difference. I have no experience, therefore no strong opinion on this; sounds good to me, but maybe it introduces its own problems that I wouldn't guess.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#628

Post by tveita »

rdtwo wrote: post #27

Op got robbed. Not only did he work way more hours to meet a milestone but in the end he got the bonus because it was structured in such a way that he did not have sufficient control of the outcome. It always surprises me how genius level folks can’t do simple math to realize that salaried employees get compensated on the compensation/hours worked formula and if compensation is fixed and hours increase you are gettin…

Right, as I read it they worked themselves to exhaustion and relations between teams were breaking down. It sounds miserable, and even if the full bonus had been actually achievable it wouldn't have worth the risk of burnout.

And presumably this was the intention, tricking people into working unreasonably hard for an uncertain reward. I was surprised the ending was a note about gratitude and not about leaving the company and its abusive management.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#629

Post by Viliam1234 »

emodendroket wrote: post #510
einpoklum wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, why don't you consult them? First set aside the amount of money you were thinking of paying. Now think of some options, e.g.: * Paying the bonus. * Improving office amenities. * Buying each employee an expensive present. * Funding a family vacation for each employee. * Making a sizable donation to a worthy cause (collectively or for each employee). * etc. Then have a meeting with them, and ask them which they w…

I can practically guarantee they are going to want the cash.

Yeah, seems like a straightforward choice.

> Paying the bonus.

Gimme, gimme!

> Improving office amenities.

Not bad, but... it would depend on how much money we are talking about, and what office amenities it would buy. For example, once I got a new $1000 office chair that felt less comfortable than the old cheap one -- I definitely would have preferred the cash. On the other hand, once I had to work with a barely functional mouse, and I would gladly spend my own $5 to buy a new one, but that would be against the company policy, so I couldn't.

In general, greater computer screens, more memory, more disk, better mouse -- good idea. (I have no idea what makes many software companies try to save money on this. It is a fraction of the developer's salary, and it can have huge impact on productivity.) Expensive chair, expensive table, art or whatever -- I would probably prefer its worth in cash, because companies typically buy stuff way more expensive than I would. Fit ball could be fun, though.

At the end of the day, the cash remains mine, especially if I invest it wisely. The office amenities that company gives, the company can take away. And I can't bring them to my next job either.

> Buying each employee an expensive present.

Just no. If it's something I want, I can buy it myself. If you buy it without asking me, there is 99% chance it has zero value for me.

> Funding a family vacation for each employee.

Again, I can do this myself, if you give me money. And I prefer to keep my family separated from my job, thank you.

> Making a sizable donation to a worthy cause (collectively or for each employee).

Another thing I can do myself, thank you. Also, high chance the "worthy cause" will be something super politically correct, and I don't want to be that bad guy who publicly opposes it.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#630

Post by emodendroket »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #627
emodendroket wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt you can make a large co-op. What I do doubt is that working at a large co-op is much different from working at any other large employer (I guess unless you're on the executive team).

At Mondragon, employees can choose their managers by vote (the corporation is run like a democracy inside), perhaps that can make some difference. I have no experience, therefore no strong opinion on this; sounds good to me, but maybe it introduces its own problems that I wouldn't guess.

That's interesting. Maybe it's more different than I would have imagined. At least it would seem to give some recourse if the manager is a tyrant.
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