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Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

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Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#51

Post by fsf4lyfe »

Good. RMS did nothing wrong really, and is the victim of a pile-on by people who can't tolerate others' opinions.

I'm glad to see that Debian isn't caving to the ignorant masses here. The FSF under RMS's leadership has done more for computing freedom than any other organization.

So what if RMS is outspoken about his beliefs? That's exactly the forthright attitude that enabled him to succeed in promoting the GPL so widely. We should all be very glad of this, and not condemn the man just because a few whiners can't deal with someone disagreeing with them.

Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#52

Post by zajio1am »

Pfhreak wrote: post #11
CameronNemo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2/3+ of voters in Debian supported calling for RMSs removal How did you come to that number?

Look at the row for option 2 in the data table, it will show you how many people preferred that option over other options. Roughly two thirds preferred removing RMS over "we should talk about this further", for example.

Row for option 2 is:

Option 2 137 168 165 239 227 199 222

222 voted for option 2 over "we should talk about this further" (default position), which is ~53% (222/420).

Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#53

Post by refenestrator »

zamalek wrote: post #15
umvi wrote: post #12

Can someone fill me in on the RMS drama/politics? Is this because he was cancelled due to (supposedly) defending Epstein and he's now trying to uncancel himself?

He continues to do intolerant stuff: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix

It's really funny that these people are incorporating pro-life arguments now. Cultural horseshoe theory.

Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#54

Post by [deleted] »

zajio1am wrote: post #52
Pfhreak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the row for option 2 in the data table, it will show you how many people preferred that option over other options. Roughly two thirds preferred removing RMS over "we should talk about this further", for example.

Row for option 2 is: Option 2 137 168 165 239 227 199 222 222 voted for option 2 over "we should talk about this further" (default position), which is ~53% (222/420).

[deleted]

Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#56

Post by [deleted] »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #34
umvi wrote: post #12

Can someone fill me in on the RMS drama/politics? Is this because he was cancelled due to (supposedly) defending Epstein and he's now trying to uncancel himself?

He isn't perfect, he said something insensitive in the Epstein causa, now all kinds of ridiculous allegations and warranted criticism gets mixed into a toxic cocktail, which doesn't allow anyone to move forward productively. If RMS accepts his cancellation, he basically caves to wrongful accusations. If he stays, we can't move forward and get work done because of the drama and all the viable reasons why he shouldn't…

[deleted]

Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#57

Post by enriquto »

zackees wrote: post #47
Pfhreak wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the letter that details the concerns about RMS: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix It's significantly more detailed and complex than "allegedly defending Epstein". Here's the letter supporting RMS: https://rms-support-letter.github.io/

That open letter against RMS is so cringe. The people who are attempting to purge him sound like intolerant, wanna-be dictators.

welcome to the age of CoCs

Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#58

Post by ohazi »

ekianjo wrote: post #30
Pfhreak wrote: post #6

If you look at the results they link, the picture becomes clearer. They proposed 8 options. 2 directly called for resignations at FSF, 2 directly supported RMS, one said to stop working with FSF, one said to call for governance improvements at FSF, one was no comment, and one was discuss further. The two options in support of RMS were not majority held opinions, and were held by ~1/6-1/3 of voters. No comment beat "c…

> It's clear which way the tide is moving It's only clear that the way this is measured is heavily biased: 4 options out of 8 are against current FSF/RMS' statu quo. Only 2 are for supporting the statu quo. And 1 is for indifference, and the last one for more discussion needed. If you overcharge the negative choices, it's kind of given most of the answers will fall in them. Survey design 101. For reference: - Option…

You do realize that the community needs to propose and sponsor these options, right?

Fewer people being willing to propose a pro-RMS option is an indication of which way the tide is moving, even if you still want to argue about why this might be the case.

Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#59

Post by kroeckx »

gizmo686 wrote: post #32
Pfhreak wrote: post #6

If you look at the results they link, the picture becomes clearer. They proposed 8 options. 2 directly called for resignations at FSF, 2 directly supported RMS, one said to stop working with FSF, one said to call for governance improvements at FSF, one was no comment, and one was discuss further. The two options in support of RMS were not majority held opinions, and were held by ~1/6-1/3 of voters. No comment beat "c…

How do you get to 2/3rds? I am not familiar with Debian's voting system, but I get just under 1/2 in favor publically supporting removal. I define "support" as preferring an option over "Further Discussion". According to [0], there were 420 unique voters. Using 420 as the denominator, and collumn 8 [1] as the numerator, we get the following approval voting results: 1) Call for the FSF board removal, as in rms-open-le…

You can look at the Majority results if you want to say how many people think an option is acceptable. That ratio is also in the graph. For option 1, 203 people indicated that it's acceptable, 186 said it was unacceptable, leaving 31 that didn't say anything about it. The 203/186=1.09 is in the graph. You could also see that as 52% find that option acceptable.

Re: Debian votes to make no statement regarding RMS readmission to the FSF board

#60

Post by krastanov »

toomim wrote: post #44
zamalek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He continues to do intolerant stuff: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix

You sound very intolerant of said "intolerance".

I am not certain whether you are making a very erudite joke or trolling, but either way, the "Paradox of Intolerance" might an interesting read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Being "intolerant to intolerance" is a fairly well accepted idea in societies that value personal freedoms.

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