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Do Cryptocurrencies Provide ANY() Real-Economic Value at All?

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Re: Do Cryptocurrencies Provide ANY() Real-Economic Value at All?

#21

Post by crispyambulance »

The potential applications of cryptocurrencies are far-ranging. Sadly, however, the current actual applications seems to be mostly just get-rich-quick schemes and highly speculative investing that's stimulated by the extreme volatility.

If the crazy stuff settles down, it might maybe someday become an actual currency that people can use to exchange legit goods and services safely. Currency should be boring.

I wonder a lot if the crazy aspects of crypto currency are by design or if I utterly misunderstand even the fundamental nature of currency. For one thing, why have the computational simulacrum of mining? Why does crypto currency NEED to use outrageous amounts of power solving puzzles to "mine" bitcoins? Is this manufactured scarcity really needed to bootstrap it as a currency? The white papers I've seen don't seem to address that kind of stuff, but are perfectly happy to obfuscate the "why" aspects.

Re: Do Cryptocurrencies Provide ANY() Real-Economic Value at All?

#22

Post by notwedtm »

pinkybanana wrote: post #19

I got rich with Bitcoin, the value in my life has been quite tangible. I live in big house, drive a nice car, I don't have to work unless I want to. This is how I would pretty much define value. Q1. by accepting and preferring BTC as a payment for my services, I was able to retain better value/purchasing power from my labour long-term. By changing my fiat currency to BTC I was able to also increase my purchasing powe…

Luck/intelligence != value

There are plenty of people who have been ruined by bitcoin as well. The fact that you were either lucky enough to ride the right waves, or smart enough to see the bad ones, does not equate to any value at all.

Re: Do Cryptocurrencies Provide ANY() Real-Economic Value at All?

#24

Post by WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 »

There are some test applications and fringe uses cases, some of which are mentioned in this thread, but I've come to the conclusion that crypto is so early that's is more of a movement than anything else. It's a movement to 1. cut out the middlemen and make the same financial ecosystem globally accessible to everyone and 2. make the financial ecosystem programmable from the ground up without the need for clunky add-ons.

We're far away from both because, like you said, countries, governments are regulations are not going away anytime soon. But I do think it's inevitable that things will change and "global programmable finance" becomes the standard. I think it will follow something like Planck's principle [0] - it's not going to happen because people are going to be convinced by crypto, but because the next generation will adopt crypto as more of a default.

At least for me, that's the reason I'm involved in crypto. I can't think of a tangible benefit I get from transacting in crypto, but I would much rather live in a world where countries, governments, and banks are less powerful and more transparent than they are now.

I think in 100-200 years we may look back and ask ourselves how we could ever live with inefficient and corrupt governments, financial, and legal systems that are based on geographical locality instead of them being internet-based. We probably won't be using the current incarnation of crypto, but I doubt the current institutions will survive, and crypto is a step towards that.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle

Re: Do Cryptocurrencies Provide ANY() Real-Economic Value at All?

#25

Post by notwedtm »

acdha wrote: post #11
jonathan_oberg wrote: post #4

Consider an NFT with smart contract which apportions a percent of each future purchase to the original seller. Now consider a stock issued by a company as the NFT. With traditional stocks, the issuing company only obtains funds one time. All future value gains are captured by traders. Finally, consider issuing stock that as NFT with the contract above. In this model, as a stock rises in value, both the company and tr…

Is anyone doing this for real? It doesn’t seem like it adds any value over a real contract since it’s still relying on the courts for enforcement, and it seems unproven that there’s much demand. Adding a blockchain also adds a number of complexities which would lower the value: you need to hedge against bugs in the smart contract (the Ethereum folks probably won’t rewrite history again for you), there’s a complex and…

It doesn't rely on the courts for enforcement, it relies on the underlying crypto-network. The contract is built in to the original sale.

Re: Do Cryptocurrencies Provide ANY() Real-Economic Value at All?

#27

Post by notwedtm »

The real value is in the democratization of the control. Sure no crypto network is 100% in this realm yet, but all of the reasons you see on this page tie back to the fact that central regulatory bodies are both bad for innovation, and bad for personal privacy.

I don't need a government, bank, or anyone besides the other side of my transaction to be involved in it.

Re: Do Cryptocurrencies Provide ANY() Real-Economic Value at All?

#29

Post by hooande »

crispyambulance wrote: post #21

The potential applications of cryptocurrencies are far-ranging. Sadly, however, the current actual applications seems to be mostly just get-rich-quick schemes and highly speculative investing that's stimulated by the extreme volatility. If the crazy stuff settles down, it might maybe someday become an actual currency that people can use to exchange legit goods and services safely. Currency should be boring. I wonder…

Crypto currency seems to have major technical issues. Transfer times and fees become ridiculous at times of peak popularity. I can't imagine how the current models and architectures could handle even a fraction of daily commercial transactions. It's fair to say "that will get worked out over time". but it's seeming increasingly likely that the idea of blockchain and mining will be have to be abandoned entirely

Re: Do Cryptocurrencies Provide ANY() Real-Economic Value at All?

#30

Post by acdha »

FloresHernandez wrote: post #15

Yes, it shields you against your own government by giving an alternative they can't stop or ban. In some parts of the world, government is hostile towards their own population, either by incompetence or malice. Debasement of the national fiat currency is theft perpetrated by the government and crypto provides an alternative for that. Can you just use US Dollars? Sure you can. But your government can search you for th…

> Yes, it shields you against your own government by giving an alternative they can't stop or ban.

How? If your government decides to take your stuff, they’re not going to say “some nerds in another country said no, guess we have to let them keep it” - they’re just going to fine, jail, or abuse you until you turn over the keys (better hope you can convince them you didn’t have anything more which you aren’t still concealing). Blockchains helpfully give them your full transaction history so it becomes exceptionally dangerous to engage in transactions with anyone you know in country since you don’t know whether they are or will ever be giving that data to the authorities.

The underlying problem is the repressive government. This is not a technical problem and you’re not going to be able to solve it with a complex, easily tracked technology which preserves a full history of your non-compliance for prosecution.

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