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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#441

Post by anonu »

jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

This is sort of the deal on Wall Street. You get a "discretionary bonus" and its more mysteriously tied to the performance of the firm. This is the secret, you can't give people too much of a formula. Bonuses have to be conjured up in a nonsensical way, otherwise stuff like this happens.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#442

Post by ZephyrBlu »

sneak wrote: post #431
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The logical decision is to always accept the money, because a small amount is still better than nothing This is a moral decision for me, not a logical one. Someone trying to make you accept an unequal portion is 100% trying to take advantage of you. The only situation I would accept an unequal share is if the portion was significant enough for the fact that it's unequal to not matter.

Morally you are entitled to zero, so it's still a good deal to take whatever you are offered. It's not like you both did an equal amount of work. You're not being taken advantage of.

Which is exactly why I'm comfortable turning it down if it's not equal. I didn't lose anything.

Neither person did any work so I don't understand your point. Why would you offer someone less than half the money when you are no more entitled to it than them?

The only reasons I can think of is to take advantage of them settling for less, or because you think you are entitled to more money. Both of which are morally wrong to me.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#443

Post by forgingahead »

kaba0 wrote: post #395
forgingahead wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. That is an independent contractor relationship. Employment means you play ball for the stability of the paycheck. If you want to throw a tantrum every time you feel slighted, you shouldn't commit to a full-time permanent job. Employees are not the top of the totem pole, there are always other factors that people making these decisions have to consider. They don't always have to share that with you. It's a n…

Boss-employee relationship goes both ways. They pay me because of my work/because I am valuable. From the story, the poster was valuable (otherwise the boss would not have paid him/her out). > Employees are not the top of the totem pole, there are always other factors that people making these decisions have to consider And that is entirely his/her thing. If I was promised this and that for a given task, I should be g…

"Value" does not just comprise of "coding ability". "Attitude" is a key part of it, and I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere would eliminate a candidate if they demonstrated high entitlement during the interview process.

If they somehow get hired because that quality was hidden somehow during the interview process, the moment it surfaced, there would be behind-the-scenes discussions on how to cut that person from the team or company, because they are destroying morale with the rest of the team.

I am intrigued by the downvotes, because I am not saying anything controversial or disconnected from reality. People may not like it, but if they're so sure of their position, I do encourage them to put an equivalent line of the counter-argument on their resume when they're applying for their next job.

One more point: I make my comments having done all sides: Employee, independent contractor, employer. You are never prevented from leaving to start your own thing, as the original commenter indicated. But harbour no illusions that working full time for someone in an employment agreement allows you to act like you're an independent contractor that can randomly walk away. You can certainly give your two weeks notice and do so, but after the 2nd time, you'll be radioactive in the job market.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#444

Post by rorykoehler »

eecc wrote: post #400
rorykoehler wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am management and I work at a company that is similar to the post you are replying to and I would never get used to it. If someone does get used to it they have serious value issues (same as if employees take bonuses for granted).

Well, unfortunately it’s something inevitable like entropic decay. The guy that hired me was someone like you, but was kicked out and replaced with a more ambitious gentleman who must have promised to squeeze us more efficiently. The problem is that if you look beyond the rhetoric and the propaganda, employee well-being are only second-order to measurable and targetable outputs. There always will be someone that prom…

I think it depends on the cultural understanding of the executive. If the values aren’t strongly held at the very top then what you say is inevitable.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#445

Post by kgwgk »

Salgat wrote: post #338
Thorrez wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the employee doesn't have to pay income tax or payroll tax on the money, so in that sense there is a tax break compared to if the money was given to the employee.

Not a tax break for the employee, since the net effect is still less money. Unless you consider losing your job and having no salary to tax also a tax break.

It’s not “still less money” compared with the situation where the employee gets the money AND donates the money. Of course if the employee was not going to keep the money not getting it is a net loss.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#446

Post by barry-cotter »

Ma8ee wrote: post #418
barry-cotter wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the academic paper linked to in that news article > the hours at which output is a maximum is at 67 and at 64, respectively. In fact, there are a few cases in which actual observations on hours of work exceed 67 and 64 meaning that, in these instances, average observed hours were at levels where the estimated marginal product of hours is negative! http://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf The Productivity of Working Hours J…

That study is of manual labour. Why do you think it says anything about knowledge work?

Because manual workers and knowledge workers get mentally weary in the same way and make mistakes in the same way, using their brains. Your muscles are perfectly capable of going longer. Your attention span, working intelligence and executive function are going to get messed up whether you’re putting 60 hours into putting the right amount of powder into every container or checking the Excel formulas are all correct.

Manual laborers are people no less than accountants or mathematicians.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#447

Post by ZephyrBlu »

diogenescynic wrote: post #18
Negitivefrags wrote: post #6

I actually think bonuses and equity grants are terrible for comapany morale. I've seen it many times, and heard many more stories. On top of the issue in this story, there are others too. For example, if someone wants to leave, but the bonus or vesting is coming up, they will stay, and you don't want people on a project who don't want to be there. As another example I know people who work at companies that are going…

Couldn't disagree more. Want to see employees work hard and be motivated? Give them equity that is a meaningful amount. I know it works for me... I work 10x harder for my current job where I have equity and stock bonuses than at previous jobs that were all salary.

Why would you prefer equity/stock over cash? I would take cold hard cash over the same amount in stock any day of the week.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#448

Post by freeflight »

lelanthran wrote: post #409
Sebb767 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But using your money to buy happiness after your ten hour work Saturday is not going to be a big success, either. Yes, it does not replace money, but for some people it is worth more to feel happy at work than to receive a bit more money.

> But using your money to buy happiness after your ten hour work Saturday is not going to be a big success, either. It depends. If working 10-hour Saturdays for a year results in me buying a yacht, you can be sure that actual real money bought the happiness that came with my yacht. It's all a tradeoff and for some things you are unlikely to get the big payoff without a risk involved. Determining where your personal b…

Then you will be stuck working 10-hour Saturdays to pay for the running costs and maintenance of said yacht, which still leaves you with barely any time to actually enjoy your yacht.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#449

Post by burntoutfire »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #291

Call me a cynic, but annual expected-not-guaranteed bonuses are mostly just retention tools right? You get paid a bonus and suddenly you’re much happier and less inclined to change jobs. If that inclination comes back later then you have to weigh the loss of the proportion of your bonus earned so far in the downsides of leaving, since the bonus is never paid in part if you leave during the year.

That's how I see them as well. It makes people who are unhappy with jobs "just stay until the next bonus". They might quit just after getting it, but if they hesitate and don't do it on the spot, soon they'll be already in another bonus cycle, and again it makes more sense to wait till they get it etc. The effect is strongest of course if the bonus is substantial.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#450

Post by thih9 »

iso1631 wrote: post #408
um_ya wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees forget that they sell their labor. Sell your labor to the highest bidder.

Why? My job is extremely easy with a great team and manager. I could get more, but I'd have to work in a high stress environment, and life is too short for that shit.

I think the grandparent was implying all other things being equal. If the highest bidder requires that you work in significally different and more difficult conditions, then it's not really comparable.
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