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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#331

Post by smitty1e »

dan-robertson wrote: post #67
smitty1e wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentives happen because they are empirically effective. I would contend that the issue is less the content of the incentives but rather the perception of fairness. If everyone is aware how the bonuses work and feels their 'fair' share is obtained, then it just becomes another part of the calculus. I speculate as a non-manager that bonuses are a good way (in the federal contracting realm, from the company perspectiv…

Honestly I feel like you have a lot more faith in businesses behaving efficiently[1] than I do. I think the normal reason for a firm to do things is random chance/business school/copying competitors. See also: “algorithms” style interview questions, brain teaser style interview questions, and using complicated distributed tools like Hadoop. [1] by efficiency , I mean settling on doing the most effective things and dr…

Maybe it's a function of scale. My remark was founded upon my recollection of being enlisted in the Navy at the end of the Cold War.

Want a fat bonus? Go nuclear.

Everyone knows where the money is, how much, when the figures are reviewed, etc.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#333

Post by eecc »

kbenson wrote: post #183
suifbwish wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not staying at a job past 5 unless I have a share of the company. Screw that. Every startup owner thinks they are unique and that’s why 90% of them fail. If you are working at a new startup the stats says it’s going to be time to look for a new job anyway in a year so why go any extra miles when you don’t have stake? Silicon Valley isn’t a charity

> I’m not staying at a job past 5 unless I have a share of the company. Screw that. Every startup owner thinks they are unique and that’s why 90% of them fail. Not all companies are the same, and not all companies are startups. I'm back working at the same company which was my first job in tech. Not for the second time, not the third either, but the fourth time now. I was first hired there over 22 years ago in tech s…

> They don't expect me or my fellow employees to work past our normal hours [...]. Yet people do work a little later to finish stuff, or check in to make sure something they did earlier in the week isn't causing problems over the weekend.

You know, managment will become accustomed to that. My first scuffle with US “work ethics” came when I spent a year in a fairly well-known company and yeah, everyone was enthusiastic and passionate and... management expected no less than total dedication and zeal from their underlings.

How does it go? “The beatings will continue until morale improves”

After I left I heard of more grief and drama, burn outs and bitter separations.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#334

Post by faeyanpiraat »

hellow0rldz wrote: post #297
twodave wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's literally a biblical parable about this (though sort of in reverse). I'll paraphrase it (it's from Matthew Ch 20): A man goes out in the morning to find workers for his vineyard, promising them each denarius for the day. Around lunch he goes to find more workers. During the afternoon, he goes to find even more workers. At the end of the day the man pays everyone, starting with those who arrived during the aft…

> But there's another truth to it that the article also describes--if you agreed to work for a wage and then receive that wage, can it really be called unfair? You define what's fair based on what information you have. If new information reveals that trade was not only unfair but a blatant rip off you are within your rights to feel something about it. Still, I think one should accept the past trade. But there's no re…

You have the right to feel anything about anything for any reason.

Whether you can renegotiate or not is not based on your feelings or morals, but how good you are at power games.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#336

Post by faeyanpiraat »

MarblePillar wrote: post #20
dewitt wrote: post #7

> "$25,000 was not enough money to retire on for sure, even in 1996." $25,000 in 1996 is $42,000 in 2021. Seems like a modest incentive for top tech talent, even back then. * To respond to the comment below, the author had been working as a hardware systems engineer at headquarters for 10 years by 1996.

The incentive is in the mind of the beholder. $42,000 captured the mind of the author; for its promise, he worked extremely hard and long, mustering a productivity far and above what he normally would have achieved. Then, when he in fact received not $42,000 but $3,666, less than one-tenth what he expected, he convinced himself that this was not a loss but a win because $3,666 is $3,666 more than $0. What is your les…

The house can go bankrupt aswell.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#337

Post by kbenson »

aniforprez wrote: post #289
Sebb767 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But using your money to buy happiness after your ten hour work Saturday is not going to be a big success, either. Yes, it does not replace money, but for some people it is worth more to feel happy at work than to receive a bit more money.

I mean "some people" is clearly not the person you're replying to and I agree with them. I'd much rather get paid for the work I do. Unless I have a stake in the company, the company is not my family and my work is a means to an end

> the company is not my family and my work is a means to an end

That's fine. I wasn't making some argument that you should work for someone that's like family, just that there's a whole spectrum between "caring about my company stops at shift end" and "my identity is bound up in this place I work".

I think most people would agree that money isn't the only thing most people care about when choosing a job. There's plenty of people here that would balk at writing better missile targeting code, or exploits for a government, or spying software marketed to spouses, or even writing video games that trigger compulsive behavior. For some people, dislike of the work outweighs the fact that they can get paid very well doing it.

FWIW, some of my time in the past was spent working for my brother at his IT company, which also employed our other brother. It's great working with family until it isn't, and when it isn't, it really isn't. I don't recommend working for family most the time, and I don't think people should treat their coworkers as family. I do think people should try to find a job where they enjoy the people they are around and are proud of the work they do, if they can afford to choose a job like that. If you're going to spend close to half your waking hours doing something, I think it's much more fulfilling and better for your mental health to care about more than the amount you're paid if you can afford to.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#338

Post by Salgat »

Thorrez wrote: post #266
jartelt wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly, the employees just picked a charity and Google gave the donation. The "gift" was being able to pick the charity. I don't think there was any employee tax break.

Well the employee doesn't have to pay income tax or payroll tax on the money, so in that sense there is a tax break compared to if the money was given to the employee.

Not a tax break for the employee, since the net effect is still less money. Unless you consider losing your job and having no salary to tax also a tax break.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#339

Post by pinkybanana »

hooande wrote: post #256
m463 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is also why I think it is silly for startups to provide too many perks Should the opposite be true as well? Startup employees going home at 5 and fighting unreasonable schedules?

employees should negotiate whatever compensation they think is fair for the work they provide. bonuses and perks can be part of that, but it's probably better to just ask for a base salary that is fair salaried employees are generally not paid by the hour, and it's rare that 40 hours a week (or any maximum) is specified in a high compensation contract. if I know that a job won't be "9-5", I'll factor that into whatev…

Bonuses are very rarely negotiated, but they are added by the management. It is very stupid to assume something about bonuses because I've seen it so many times that they can be unpredictable. Negotiate your salary and other perks, if you get bonuses on top of that be happy but don't except that you will get those bonuses in further negotiations.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#340

Post by chris11 »

Rapzid wrote: post #248
Negitivefrags wrote: post #6

I actually think bonuses and equity grants are terrible for comapany morale. I've seen it many times, and heard many more stories. On top of the issue in this story, there are others too. For example, if someone wants to leave, but the bonus or vesting is coming up, they will stay, and you don't want people on a project who don't want to be there. As another example I know people who work at companies that are going…

Startup I work for was acquired within the past year; came through as a "key employee". Don't like the new environment. Huge management hierarchy and management culture, command/control, siloed decision making, and etc. Unfortunately my reward, as such, is tied up in retention based compensation. Not phoning it in yet, but struggling to reach the 1 year cliff. Honestly coming around to the idea..

I've heard some places can make out of band offers to match unvested equity if they really want you.
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