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Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China

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Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China

#81

Post by pizzapill »

idownvoted wrote: post #70
pizzapill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2002 was the last year Germany imported more power than it exported: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/153533/umfrag...

Ah Sweet, the old “exportweltmeister” scam never seems to get old. Germany is exporting so much energy because (and only because) without the base load provided by conventional power plants it’s energy grid routinely is on the brink of collapse, whenever there are weather based shifts in renewable energy production. This causes the electricity price to routinely go negative because our neighboring countries don’t wan…

Do you have a source for your claims? I mean its obvious that renewables are dependent on the weather, but that's no issue since a neighbour can always produce & Germany is building up power storage capacity. Including a fat line to Norway where Germany sends wind power and receives renewables power when there is a need.

Additional the German power grid is super stable, black- or brownouts simply don't happen.

> This causes the electricity price to routinely go negative because our neighboring countries don’t want to have it either.

This has and probably will always happen. For example Aluminum smelters are getting paid to burn electricity almost since the beginning of the industrialization, otherwise this industry wouldn't exist.

> What a failure. And what a failure that people still fall for that exportweltmeister lie

So building up massive renewable capacity while starting to sell more and more of it is a failure to you? Either your expectations are crazy high or very low...

Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China

#82

Post by soperj »

mr_woozy wrote: post #79
oefrha wrote: post #72

A good reminder that Bitcoin runs on cheap renewables is BS. See also miners buying gas power plants in New York.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26828479

sure if you're suddenly not counting China's hydropower as renewables suddenly.

Depending on what's flooded Hydro can actually be the dirtest power out there. There's a hydro plant in brazil that contributes 3 times the number of ghg emissions as it's equivalent coal plant.

Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China

#83

Post by labster »

idownvoted wrote: post #70
pizzapill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2002 was the last year Germany imported more power than it exported: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/153533/umfrag...

Ah Sweet, the old “exportweltmeister” scam never seems to get old. Germany is exporting so much energy because (and only because) without the base load provided by conventional power plants it’s energy grid routinely is on the brink of collapse, whenever there are weather based shifts in renewable energy production. This causes the electricity price to routinely go negative because our neighboring countries don’t wan…

This is why you build continent-sized electric grids. It’s always sunny somewhere.

Making a nation-sized renewable-based electric grid is very hard to stabilize, because you’re not working at the right scale. It’s the same with other large infrastructure like freeways: they’re only worth the investment if you connect vast areas.

Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China

#85

Post by bonestamp2 »

oefrha wrote: post #72

A good reminder that Bitcoin runs on cheap renewables is BS. See also miners buying gas power plants in New York.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26828479

Also a good time to point out that there are energy efficient blockchains that work differently from bitcoin -- not all crypto is as power hungry (some use disk space, or memory, or even just the tokens themselves to replace bitcoin's proof of work model).

Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China

#87

Post by Thorrez »

roofwellhams wrote: post #77
jabbany wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory yes, but in practice it's rather infeasible to do 51% attacks IRL --- the main constraint is the people not the math. A 51% attack mainly lets you double spend, so you have to: (1) get a lot of coins and spend them on something (2) start mining a fork where that spending didn't happen (but other real transactions continue to happen) --- your hash power will now need to be dedicated to this new fork at the e…

What if this drop in hash is to use on the 2nd chain?

Well we have a good explanation of the drop: the power outages. Also with 25% hash power you're going to have a hard time doing a 51% attack.

Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China

#88

Post by dehrmann »

jabbany wrote: post #66
2bitencryption wrote: post #14

> Significantly, the Xinjiang and Sichuan regions of China combined account for more than 50 percent of the overall Bitcoin mining hash rate I don't get it, doesn't this effectively mean China can force a 51% attack by just strongarming the pools that operate there?

In theory yes, but in practice it's rather infeasible to do 51% attacks IRL --- the main constraint is the people not the math. A 51% attack mainly lets you double spend, so you have to: (1) get a lot of coins and spend them on something (2) start mining a fork where that spending didn't happen (but other real transactions continue to happen) --- your hash power will now need to be dedicated to this new fork at the e…

You're thinking too small on the impact--China doesn't need to double spend bitcoins. What they could do is cause a loss of confidence in Bitcoin overnight and collapse the price.

Re: Bitcoin mining hash rate drops as blackouts instituted in China

#90

Post by bonestamp2 »

rantwasp wrote: post #31
2bitencryption wrote: post #14

> Significantly, the Xinjiang and Sichuan regions of China combined account for more than 50 percent of the overall Bitcoin mining hash rate I don't get it, doesn't this effectively mean China can force a 51% attack by just strongarming the pools that operate there?

that’s not how 51% attacks work. you have the miners but you also have the actual bitcoin nodes that are witnessing the blockchain growth.

Do the witnesses have any weight on the consensus?
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