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Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

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Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#51

Post by jesselawson »

SunlightEdge wrote: post #31

Unfortunately most writers of fiction make next to nothing too. Writers often are not happy writing either (unlike painters and video artists who seem to have a whale of a time). Sadly I toiled for 8 years on a novel (while working a day job). It was a massive effort. It might be hard for people to understand but I felt I had to write it (i.e. writers curse). I wish I had spent all that time on studying programming e…

Hey I know you're feeling like giving up, but you have to realize that you've only taken the first step--and the good news is, it's a step that only 10% of people ever make! So congratulations! You published your first novel! Only 10% of people ever finish "that novel" they have in their head that they feel the urge to write. I'm proud of you!

Now for the next part, which no one like's to hear: the easy part is over. Yep, you heard that right: getting your first work finished and out there was relatively easy compared to the mountain you have set yourself on to climb. Yes, only 10% of people dare climb that mountain, and here you are--among the 10%. Now, as you look forward, I can tell you that at every major step, every major obstacle, and every major setback, only 10% of people keep going.

You might think there's a secret to this writing thing, but there isn't. Just like when we're hiking up a mountain, the only thing that matters is putting one foot in front of the other. That's the only way you climb. So you HAVE to get back in there (mentally) and keep going!

You just started on an amazingly difficult and frustrating and beautiful journey in life. You made it to where only 10% of people get to--and now you want to stop the journey?

My friend, your journey has only just begun.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#52

Post by krmmalik »

kjksf wrote: post #33
krmmalik wrote: post #26

I'm an author of a non-fiction book. I self-published. My book has a 5-star rating to date even though it was published nearly 5 years ago. My book meets most of the criteria laid out in this book. I even had both a publisher and distributor approach me and I had plenty leverage. Despite all that, I didn't get the book sales I wanted nor the PR. Everyone that reads my book is surprised to hear it's not topping the ch…

Does it, though? I assume you mean "Billion Dollar Muslim: Why We Need Spiritually Inspired Entrepreneurs". It clearly makes mistake #3: "writing broadly about the topic instead of making a clear promise about what the reader will get out of it". What is "clear promise about what the reader will get out of it" in "Billion Dollar Muslim"? Frankly, based on the title I don't see why I should read it, even if I'm somewh…

I gave up marketing the book two years ago after trying for nearly 3 years. SSL certificate I will check out. That must be recent as the site has been running fine for years.

You might have a point about the promise of the book, but that depends on whether your muslim or not. Most muslims who come across it, understand the premise immediately, but still, you might have a point there.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#53

Post by SunlightEdge »

jesselawson wrote: post #51
SunlightEdge wrote: post #31

Unfortunately most writers of fiction make next to nothing too. Writers often are not happy writing either (unlike painters and video artists who seem to have a whale of a time). Sadly I toiled for 8 years on a novel (while working a day job). It was a massive effort. It might be hard for people to understand but I felt I had to write it (i.e. writers curse). I wish I had spent all that time on studying programming e…

Hey I know you're feeling like giving up, but you have to realize that you've only taken the first step--and the good news is, it's a step that only 10% of people ever make! So congratulations! You published your first novel! Only 10% of people ever finish "that novel" they have in their head that they feel the urge to write. I'm proud of you! Now for the next part, which no one like's to hear: the easy part is over.…

Thanks for your kind words. Perhaps what you say is true. I'm not sure I'm qualified (ironically) to say.

What I can say is that the time, the sacrifice, and then the crappy marketing ploys (no one tells you about that). It's real hard work. It's really hard when you get nothing for all your efforts.

I know a 2nd book would be easier. But it still would take a lot of time. Probably 3-4 years.

Potentially in... a while... I might write again. I am full of ideas. But honestly I'd rather build IT stuff right now. Programming is my new love.

Don't get me wrong there is a real beauty in writing. But, well there is a lot to life. And I'd like to explore different things. There's a ton of creativity in IT.

I can always start writing again when I'm 55/60. I actually don't think it's a young man's activity. There's no money in it either.

But yeah, sitting in the sun during my twilight years... writing. Sounds great.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#55

Post by mhh__ »

WalterBright wrote: post #54
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing something that’s fun and hard.

If it was easy, it wouldn't be any fun.

I have to say this to my all the time to my friend who got into Harvard from across the pond who seems to deliberately pick "easy" courses with lots of book work and therefore burns out e.g. if you want to learn complex analysis, the hard course that requires thinking will probably have less tedious homework to do for example.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#56

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Multiplayer wrote: post #39
101008 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a publisher author of a non-fiction book with an established publisher, I had to stop reading after that first point because he is completely wrong.

I think it makes sense. He's saying that if you get a 15% royalty, vs the 100% royalty minus costs of self publishing, you need to sell 5x more books via the publisher. It's oddly worded, but the math roughly works depending on your self publishing costs.

It's very poorly worded. And if not wrong, then certainly very unclear.

The math... depends.

Not all publishers offer advances, and those that do offer advances with different strategies.

Here is one strategy: a commissioning editor uses a sales modelling system to estimate the maximum possible advance against likely sales.

At larger publishers, you can be sure the editor has a very good idea what the likely sales will be. Because that's what publishers do, and they have years, sometimes decades of data and experience to draw on.

The editor will set the advance so the book never earns out.

This gives you more money than you might expect for an advance. And you can usually haggle upwards from the initial offer.

But of course you've just signed what is really a work for hire contract. You will not see any more money than the initial offer.

Would you earn more self-pub? Possibly. That depends entirely on your ability to reach an audience and sell your book to them. Parking a title on Amazon isn't nearly enough.

If you have good marketing skills and if you hit a desirable niche you can do very well - much better than trad pub.

But if you miss - you've wasted maybe a few months, with not much to show for it.

So it's a risk/reward calculation. If you know you can write the book, an advance is money in the bank. It's a known quantity. You don't have to do marketing too.

Sometimes that's a workable deal, especially if you have a day job and marketing is not a strong competence. You won't early nearly as much as you would in dev, but - it's a book. With your name on it. And some cash.

If you have the time to spare and either know or hope you can build an audience, and are sure the title really does fit a niche, by all means self-pub.

But you should only do this if you've done the groundwork. Like any other business you have to think about product/market fit, and marketing, and finding your audience, and all of the usual hurdles.

And unfortunately, marketing is a skillset in its own right. Of course you can learn it, but starting cold is challenging.

Personally having been through this cycle a few times I wouldn't trad pub now. But I also wouldn't assume that all I have to do is write a book and it will automatically sell in reassuring quantities.

I know it won't. There's more work to do, and I wouldn't want anyone to underestimate how hard it is.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#58

Post by throwaway1777 »

yesenadam wrote: post #44

I enjoyed this, I thought it mostly made good points, and it linked to other articles I will look at. Yet.. I started reading a blogger who teaches how to make a successful blog, sells courses about it, etc. I soon realized her blog is just about her making money from promising to help you make money from your blog. A frighteningly vacuous operation. It seems a modern cousin to the old ad in magazines promising to re…

You've hit the nail on the head. It's the same for some other industries like courses teaching you how to trade stocks. The way they make money is the course, not the trading.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#59

Post by Finnucane »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #56
Multiplayer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it makes sense. He's saying that if you get a 15% royalty, vs the 100% royalty minus costs of self publishing, you need to sell 5x more books via the publisher. It's oddly worded, but the math roughly works depending on your self publishing costs.

It's very poorly worded. And if not wrong, then certainly very unclear. The math... depends. Not all publishers offer advances, and those that do offer advances with different strategies. Here is one strategy: a commissioning editor uses a sales modelling system to estimate the maximum possible advance against likely sales. At larger publishers, you can be sure the editor has a very good idea what the likely sales wi…

>The editor will set the advance so the book never earns out.

Not deliberately, most of the time. If you have a track record, a good agent, and there's a competitive bid for your book, they might overpay knowing that they don't have to earn out to make a profit, they just have to get reasonably close. Maybe they can make it up in subrights. But if those things are not true, the advance will be lower.

Re: Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money

#60

Post by WalterBright »

mhh__ wrote: post #55
WalterBright wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was easy, it wouldn't be any fun.

I have to say this to my all the time to my friend who got into Harvard from across the pond who seems to deliberately pick "easy" courses with lots of book work and therefore burns out e.g. if you want to learn complex analysis, the hard course that requires thinking will probably have less tedious homework to do for example.

It's the same with competition. Who wants to enter a competition that's an easy win? There's no joy in that. Far more fun competing with people who are very good.
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