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Why the United States has the best research universities

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Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#201

Post by asdff »

aborsy wrote: post #2

Research focus in US and EU seems a bit different. Europe produces a lot of high quality science. Research in US is on the other hand increasingly application-focused (something that EU is not very good at). This is my observation as a former researcher who has experience in both regions; I don’t have references. It’s partly driven by culture, and economic system. The strong public system in Europe supports longer te…

Most government agencies like NIH and NSF are funding mostly basic research, because as you note private companies do not invest in this.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#202

Post by est31 »

User23 wrote: post #11
aborsy wrote: post #2

Research focus in US and EU seems a bit different. Europe produces a lot of high quality science. Research in US is on the other hand increasingly application-focused (something that EU is not very good at). This is my observation as a former researcher who has experience in both regions; I don’t have references. It’s partly driven by culture, and economic system. The strong public system in Europe supports longer te…

I've noticed EU CS grads are on average much stronger scientifically than US ones. With notable exceptions, the typical US undergraduate curriculum is more of a trade school. That’s fine of course, but definitely not the skillset needed for novel research or even properly applying recent research. Edit: Apparently I’ve struck a nerve. But this has been my experience working and hiring at two of the FAANGs. The teams…

Maybe survivor's bias? I assume you live in the USA. The europeans that FANG bothers to move across the pond might be only the really good ones attracted by the top payment. The mediocre europeans don't make it and thus remain in europe, outside of your view. Different culture, different success measures, red tape around visas, etc. all put larger cost onto international hires vs just hiring domestically.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#203

Post by aj7 »

aborsy wrote: post #2

Research focus in US and EU seems a bit different. Europe produces a lot of high quality science. Research in US is on the other hand increasingly application-focused (something that EU is not very good at). This is my observation as a former researcher who has experience in both regions; I don’t have references. It’s partly driven by culture, and economic system. The strong public system in Europe supports longer te…

I believe this is almost 100% wrong - reversed, until fairly recently. European basic research was in the toilet for decades; they often did the second experiment in everything.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#204

Post by aj7 »

est31 wrote: post #202
User23 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed EU CS grads are on average much stronger scientifically than US ones. With notable exceptions, the typical US undergraduate curriculum is more of a trade school. That’s fine of course, but definitely not the skillset needed for novel research or even properly applying recent research. Edit: Apparently I’ve struck a nerve. But this has been my experience working and hiring at two of the FAANGs. The teams…

Maybe survivor's bias? I assume you live in the USA. The europeans that FANG bothers to move across the pond might be only the really good ones attracted by the top payment. The mediocre europeans don't make it and thus remain in europe, outside of your view. Different culture, different success measures, red tape around visas, etc. all put larger cost onto international hires vs just hiring domestically.

Exactly.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#205

Post by asdff »

1helloworld1 wrote: post #19

American universities attract the best students from all over the world. For example - at Tandon School of Engineering about 80 percent of graduate students hail from foreign countries - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american... American academic STEM research is sustained by the constant flow of the best students from all over the world who are willing to spend 12 hours a day for 4-6 years for…

People from around the world work for low pay in grad school because the opportunities afterwards are much better in the US, either in industry which is where most go now, or even in academia. The federal government dumps more money into research grants than any other country, and this is able to support a lot of researchers and generate a mountain of scientific output.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#206

Post by R0b0t1 »

oneplane wrote: post #131
ur-whale wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups Don't waste your time looking, there are none or almost none. EU is simply not geared (anymore) for this type of endeavor to succeed: - finance infrastructure for this is non-existent (VCs are a joke in Europe, both in terms of size and in terms of the type of stuff they invest in) - risk-taking is simply not a cultural value anymore - administrative burdens (…

As someone from the EU, some of your points seem very true, but it's also simply a matter of many people not really having the same goals and requirements. There is no true independence in any society, apart from autocracy, and externalities always exist. There doesn't seem to be much value attributed to 'having a lot of money' etc, for a lot of people, having a fulfilling job, family and life is enough, and having t…

Your explanation fits into what he described, point 3 & 4. You're trying to justify why taking risks isn't required.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#207

Post by DoreenMichele »

1helloworld1 wrote: post #19

American universities attract the best students from all over the world. For example - at Tandon School of Engineering about 80 percent of graduate students hail from foreign countries - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american... American academic STEM research is sustained by the constant flow of the best students from all over the world who are willing to spend 12 hours a day for 4-6 years for…

My recollection: We attract students from all over the world because you simply can go to school here. Most other countries have significant barriers to entry for college that we lack.

In some countries, you have to choose between a trade school track and a college track around the time you enter high school and there is little to no opportunity to change tracks at a later date.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#208

Post by KingOfCoders »

wahern wrote: post #130
rossdavidh wrote: post #117

So, the ascent of U.S. universities to high status on a worldwide scale, happened in the first half of the 20th century really. Why? Well, because Europe was tearing itself apart in two world wars, and the U.S. sat out the first half of both of those, while receiving a lot of talent fleeing those wars. If you have the money, and the former top-of-the-heap has bombed their wealth into rubble, it doesn't require any ma…

It wasn't just the U.S. receiving that talent. Latin America, particularly Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile also saw 10s of millions of European immigrants.[1] Germans, Italians, Jews, Poles, etc, as well as Japanese and Chinese. Canada and Australia also saw significant migration. So the mere fact of the emigration of European talent doesn't quite answer the question. The role of European conflict driving emigra…

Most of the european scientists went to the already famous US universities, not to Argentina, Brazil or Chile. Europe basically lost every scientist before, during or after WW2 to the US. Probably the biggest brain drain in history.

e.g. "Operation Paperclip was a secret US intelligence program in which more than 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians, [...]" -Wikipedia

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#209

Post by hnedeotes »

ur-whale wrote: post #65
boringg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this vein [but slightly off topic], can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups? The only one that comes to mind is Spotify. I was speaking with some people the other day and probably due to a NA centric focus we were at a lack of well branded EU starts up that had made it similar to US ones.

> can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups Don't waste your time looking, there are none or almost none. EU is simply not geared (anymore) for this type of endeavor to succeed: - finance infrastructure for this is non-existent (VCs are a joke in Europe, both in terms of size and in terms of the type of stuff they invest in) - risk-taking is simply not a cultural value anymore - administrative burdens (…

But, is this true? Other than right now, and is this the reason or a consequence?

I ask because, without heavy, heavy, megatron like heavy, investment from the government none of the technologies that now feed this ecosystem would have been developed (semiconductors, internet, etc, there's more, probably even in seemingness fields). Do you imagine any entrepreneur in the USA would have gone "yeah let's just feed this tree some millions to grow the internet"? Or many other industries.

Then there's some other things. Google tried to sell itself for what, 1M at the time? To Yahoo (if I'm not mistaken). They were a search engine. If their proposal would have been accepted there wouldn't have been any google as we know (probably). And we could say that all other examples are heavily, government invested, under or over the covers.

I ask because I'm tired of hearing narratives that leave out of the equation so many important details as to not have any semblance to reality.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#210

Post by edwinyzh »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #208
wahern wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't just the U.S. receiving that talent. Latin America, particularly Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile also saw 10s of millions of European immigrants.[1] Germans, Italians, Jews, Poles, etc, as well as Japanese and Chinese. Canada and Australia also saw significant migration. So the mere fact of the emigration of European talent doesn't quite answer the question. The role of European conflict driving emigra…

Most of the european scientists went to the already famous US universities, not to Argentina, Brazil or Chile. Europe basically lost every scientist before, during or after WW2 to the US. Probably the biggest brain drain in history. e.g. "Operation Paperclip was a secret US intelligence program in which more than 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians, [...]" -Wikipedia

Yes, so obvious.
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