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Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

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Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#71

Post by xbar »

t-writescode wrote: post #42
pvaldes wrote: post #18

The prosaic reality is that bumblebees don't have any particular feelings about cats. Not more that they would feel about other carnivores. Using the same argument we could easily link being rich in England with the presence of rats in their house (that also eat lots of mice); or other similar nonsense. (But, yep. I agree that this old histories full of literary licenses feel warm inside and are entertaining as long…

Whenever we over-anthropomorphize animals, we are disappointed; but, whenever we under-anthropomorphize them, we tend to be surprised. The truth is somewhere in the middle, probably closer to us humans than not in their emotional complexity, for many, many more animals than we give credit.

I think you are right.

Bumblebees are bumblebees and alien, but they sometimes bond with mammals.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#72

Post by jonplackett »

ivanbakel wrote: post #24
jonplackett wrote: post #22

There's also the story of the man who decided the USA needed to have all the birds mentioned in Shakespeare's plays, so he imported and released them, with similarly disastrous results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Schieffelin#Starling_re...

It seems odd to recount a historical anecdote while simultenously linking to a source that casts considerable doubt over it.

I think there’s some doubt over why he did it, but it seemed like he did still do it?

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#73

Post by necovek »

pierrebai wrote: post #48

The example, taken from the Origin of Species, of the OP is interesting, but then it goes on to list multiple inter-dependencies. It does not address one question: are these inter-dependencies required, strict and essential to the survival of the affected species. IOW, are not the species flexible enough and adaptable enough that any change would be fixed by a substitute or a change in behaviour? There are many claim…

We do know with reasonable certainty that life is adaptable and likely to survive any man made catastrophe: as humans go extinct if they don't do much to prevent their effects on the ecosystem, Earth and life will likely find a new equillibrium for the mid-term future (millions of years).

But we are worried about short term future that directly affects the human species, and even knowing what environment we'd be living in for that short term (thousands of years).

If humans want to go past those thousands of years, or tens of thousands of years, it seems some change of behaviour is needed, and a better understanding of the inter-relations between species.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#74

Post by throwmeaway1717 »

bori5 wrote: post #60
quesera wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And similarly: For want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse the rider was lost. For want of a rider the message was lost. For want of a message the battle was lost. For want of a battle the kingdom was lost. And all for the want of a horseshoe nail. This formulation appears to be at least a few hundred years old. Antecedents are recorded back to the 1300s. https://e…

I first heard this on a Todd Rundgren DVD https://youtu.be/luHRsRWSdoU

And I read it first as some nursery rhyme brought back from from Java-land, arranged in Steve Yegge's "Execution in the kingdom of nouns"

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom...

(high concentration, pure pleasure, java trolling material)

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#75

Post by boygobbo »

sammalloy wrote: post #8

> There is a famous story along these lines told for the first time by the German biologists Ernst Haeckel and Carl Vogt. As the story goes, the fortunes of England would seem to depend on cats. By nourishing themselves on mice, cats increase the chances of survival of bumblebees, which, in turn, pollinate shamrocks, which then nourish the beef cows that provide the meat to nourish British sailors, thus permitting th…

This reminds me of William Blake's Auguries of Innocence (~1803):

    To see a World in a Grain of Sand
    And a Heaven in a Wild Flower 
    Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand 
    And Eternity in an hour

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#76

Post by peter_d_sherman »

>"The ecological relationships that Darwin brings to our attention tell us of a world of bonds much more complex and ungraspable than had ever previously been supposed.

Relationships so complex as to connect everything to everything in a single network of the living."

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#78

Post by pvaldes »

wsinks wrote: post #46
pvaldes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm never going to read that thing. Is surprisingly accesible and easy to follow in fact. Such way to write science using logic and linking obvious facts instead to trying to wrap all in math glitter couldn't happen today.

But is it as easily accessible as "Seeing Nature: Deliberate Encounters with the Visible World"? The bar of accessible is much much lower than the Origin of Species.

But 'Seing Nature' didn't made the same revolution on our knowledge as 'the Origin of the species'. Neither has the same historical or cultural impact in our society. There are still a lot of people releasing fake news about Darwin for promoting some religious agenda, so educate ourselves in his work to be able to disclose those liars is even more relevant now than ever.

Why not read both books in a row starting with the origin?. Is a reasonable goal, will be intellectually rewarding, and everybody could do it in a month.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#79

Post by pvaldes »

pvaldes wrote: post #78
wsinks wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it as easily accessible as "Seeing Nature: Deliberate Encounters with the Visible World"? The bar of accessible is much much lower than the Origin of Species.

But 'Seing Nature' didn't made the same revolution on our knowledge as 'the Origin of the species'. Neither has the same historical or cultural impact in our society. There are still a lot of people releasing fake news about Darwin for promoting some religious agenda, so educate ourselves in his work to be able to disclose those liars is even more relevant now than ever. Why not read both books in a row starting with…

s/for promoting /with the purpose of promoting /
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