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Foundations of Complexity Economics

nature.com

11–20 of 33 posts

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#11
post #2

Curious article. Certainly builds a strong straw man. First sentence "For the past 150 years, economic theory has viewed agents in the economy (firms, consumers, investors) as perfectly rational decision makers facing well-defined problems and arriving at optimal behavior consistent with — in equilibrium with — the outcome caused by this behaviour." The formal definition of rational actor is not nearly 150 years old.…

> "Complexity economics", in form of dynamic systems and chaos theory (for example) had its time in the sun, since the 70's actually, without leading to convincing new insights

This is really interesting. The system dynamics folks at the MIT would probably disagree. The extent to which dynamic systems explains outcomes of fluctuating forces in the economy is certainly useful. That said, SD has a communication problem: even if models can explain system behaviour and pinpoint required corrective action, people have difficulty internalizing these. Humans are not very good at applying differential equations to their everyday lives. So maybe this is why the field can be said not to have "lead to convincing new insights" in economics?

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#12
post #2

Curious article. Certainly builds a strong straw man. First sentence "For the past 150 years, economic theory has viewed agents in the economy (firms, consumers, investors) as perfectly rational decision makers facing well-defined problems and arriving at optimal behavior consistent with — in equilibrium with — the outcome caused by this behaviour." The formal definition of rational actor is not nearly 150 years old.…

Outcomes are the only things that matter.

As your good man Herbert Simon showed, we are chimps with 6 inch brains dealing with many a problem that require slightly to hugely more than that. When the upper bound of Rationality gets hit all chimps blunder. Dont waste your time analysing the blundering.

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#13
post #2

Curious article. Certainly builds a strong straw man. First sentence "For the past 150 years, economic theory has viewed agents in the economy (firms, consumers, investors) as perfectly rational decision makers facing well-defined problems and arriving at optimal behavior consistent with — in equilibrium with — the outcome caused by this behaviour." The formal definition of rational actor is not nearly 150 years old.…

what would you consider to be 'Economics the good part' as of today ? because as an outsider who's interested in learning more there seems to be a lot of alchemy going in the field.

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#14
My gripe with all schools of economics is how real estate/land market is completely abstracted away. Even though it is the largest financial market of them all, with everyone except homeless involved.

In mainstream economics it is treated as just another good, such as break or milk, but somehow it behaves differently. The dynamics of the market are driven by monopoly pricing and mortgage and rent are paid more like a tax than a payment for a yoghurt that you can choose not to buy or buy an alternative. You can't choose not to be housed.

Since its monopolistic nature the house/land market works like a gravity for excess money and endless bubble which keeps inflating and bursting forming a housing cycle, which many confuse with a business cycle.

Real estate is literally where money go to die. Excess money or surplus and corrupt money gets parked in it and unless additional money is used for repairs it actually loses value. It acts as a sink of money flow in the economy.

Classical economists in the 19th century were actually aeare of this. Ricardo and his law of rent actually really describes what is going on with the economy. It explains what wages even mean, instead of just payments for work, based on margin of production. It's actually one of the few law of economics which actually behaves like a law of gravity in physics, being consistent globally, unlike the rest of them resembling the theory of epicycles.

Since the marginal revolution housing, land and rents were abstracted away and economics started resembling some mathematical system for an imaginary game world with researchers being drowned in neverending epicycles.

If the theory doesn't model land and house speculation then it will fall into the same traps and will be chasing parameter tuning to ever more complex equations forever since it will never understand the actual money flows in the economy.

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#15
Complexity economics sees the economy as not necessarily in equilibrium, its decision makers (or agents) as not super-rational, the problems they face as not being well-defined. The economy becomes something not given and existing but constantly forming from a developing set of actions, strategies and beliefs. For past 150 years, economic theory has viewed economy as an evolving complex system, and out of this exploration has come complexity economics.

Complexity economics is not a science, rather it is a movement within science. It studies how elements interacting in a system create overall patterns. These patterns, in turn, cause the elements to change or adapt in response. The economics I will describe here drops the assumptions of equilibrium and rationality.

Equilibrium assumes that the aggregate outcome is consistent with agent behaviour. It gives no incentive for agents to change their actions. Over the past 120 years, economists such as Thorstein Veblen, Joseph Schumpeter and Friedrich Hayek have objected to the equilibrium framework. All have thought a different economics was needed.

Companies in a novel market may have different technologies, different motivations and different resources. They may not know who their competitors will be or, indeed, how they will think. As a result, the decision problem faced by agents is not logically defined. It follows that rational behaviour is not well-defined.

Agents could be implemented as small, individual computer programs that could differ, explore and learn to get smart. In economic problems, agents could start with their own arbitrarily chosen beliefs, learn which ones worked and explore new ones occasionally, dropping ones that did not perform well and replacing them with new ones to try out. They could, in this way, operate and explore in an ill-defined setting and become more intelligent as they gained experience.

In the El Farol problem, agents' forecasting methods vie to be valid in a situation that is dependent on other agents' forecasts. Behavioural economics gives insights into how real human agents respond. Agents act in a way like species, continually competing or mutually adapting and co-evolving.

In a classic study57, a computerized tournament was constructed in which strategies compete in randomly chosen pairs to play a repeated prisoner's dilemma game. Simple strategies such as tit-for-tat dominate but, over time, more sophisticated ones show up that exploit them. Evolution enters in a natural way that arises from strategies mutually competing for survival and mutating as they go.

The standard, neoclassical theory of financial markets assumes identical investors adopt identical forecasting models. In a new model, 'investors' generate their own individual forecasting methods, try out promising ones, discard those that don't work, and periodically generate new methods to replace them. At low rates of investors trying out new forecasts, the market behaviour collapsed into the standard neoclassicals.

Phenomena we see in real markets are not 'departures from rationality' They are the result of economic agents discovering behaviour that works temporarily in situations caused by other agents. In real markets, after all, that is where the money is made. A word on agent-based computational economics: it studies how solutions or structures form. Agent-based computational economics could be a key method within the framework of complexity economics, says David Frum. Frum

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#16
post #12
post #2

Curious article. Certainly builds a strong straw man. First sentence "For the past 150 years, economic theory has viewed agents in the economy (firms, consumers, investors) as perfectly rational decision makers facing well-defined problems and arriving at optimal behavior consistent with — in equilibrium with — the outcome caused by this behaviour." The formal definition of rational actor is not nearly 150 years old.…

Outcomes are the only things that matter. As your good man Herbert Simon showed, we are chimps with 6 inch brains dealing with many a problem that require slightly to hugely more than that. When the upper bound of Rationality gets hit all chimps blunder. Dont waste your time analysing the blundering.

Well that's why we've built these unbelievably incredible computing machines.

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#17
people on this thread seem really aggressive. so go easy on me. But I've started to wonder about economic value. to an individual like myself the only real value(outside eating every day) is new experiences/skills or learning new things(out of a theoretical matrix of total available things). I feel like that is probably true for everyone. It would seem to be the source of the jealousy that relative wealth engenders. It causes mid life crises, the realisation that your cumulative choices have pruned your world of possible experiences and learnings. To me, it seems much more fundamental than price or a currency. Could that be modelled on a computer with individual agents? I wonder if it would prove interesting.

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#18
post #13
post #2

Curious article. Certainly builds a strong straw man. First sentence "For the past 150 years, economic theory has viewed agents in the economy (firms, consumers, investors) as perfectly rational decision makers facing well-defined problems and arriving at optimal behavior consistent with — in equilibrium with — the outcome caused by this behaviour." The formal definition of rational actor is not nearly 150 years old.…

what would you consider to be 'Economics the good part' as of today ? because as an outsider who's interested in learning more there seems to be a lot of alchemy going in the field.

I recommend to think of economics in terms of meteorology, instead of math/physics. Economical systems are way too complex to contain within a simulation, can't be simplified like e.g. gravitation force formulas. There are analysts trying to interpret the history, explain current events and predict the future, researchers trying to find generalizations and politicians altering the economical policy arbitrarily - and everyone wants their content to reach everyone.

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#19
post #14

My gripe with all schools of economics is how real estate/land market is completely abstracted away. Even though it is the largest financial market of them all, with everyone except homeless involved. In mainstream economics it is treated as just another good, such as break or milk, but somehow it behaves differently. The dynamics of the market are driven by monopoly pricing and mortgage and rent are paid more like a…

> My gripe with all schools of economics i

Then you don't know much about mainstream economics. Don't learn economics from news, pundits or other shallow sources.

(1) Mainstream Economists strongly agree with you with large consensus. Yes there is consensus among mainstream economists about land/property.

(2) They have a solution and they agree even on that. Property tax is considered the least harmful tax because it taxes rentier. Adam Smith would also strongly agree. He made this tax proposal to solve the issue already in 1776.

(3) Urban economics has even more nuanced view.

When mainstream economists agree on something, there is little talk about it.

The real issue is the people. Either they own property and don't accept tax, or they can't understand simple reasoning with 2 or 3 steps. If the first step is to increase property/land tax they stop thinking and react with statements like: "It would increase rents" or "Price of food would increase."

Re: Foundations of Complexity Economics

#20

people on this thread seem really aggressive. so go easy on me. But I've started to wonder about economic value. to an individual like myself the only real value(outside eating every day) is new experiences/skills or learning new things(out of a theoretical matrix of total available things). I feel like that is probably true for everyone. It would seem to be the source of the jealousy that relative wealth engenders.…

A science goes much faster when you have objective observations and measurable quantities. That is the only reason why economists are so focused on prices, GDP, incomes.

It would be great to have objective measures of happiness, satisfaction, enjoyment. Some people are actually pursuing attempts in that direction for instance look [1]

Thing is, prices are a proxy of that. If you earn 30 USD an hour, then being ready to pay something 30 USD means you evaluate it at about an hour of work worth.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness_economics

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