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In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

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Re: In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

#31

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

sokoloff wrote: post #21
newacct583 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extraordinarily bad take. In the US we tax the marginal middle class dollar of income about 3x higher than we do a marginal dollar of investment income. Do we hate the middle class more than wall street? We tax canadian steel more than chinese PCBs. Do we hate the Canadians more than the Chinese? More broadly, this would seek to interpret the lowest-tax anarchies as the most tolerant and loving societies a…

> In the US we tax the marginal middle class dollar of income about 3x higher than we do a marginal dollar of investment income. Marginal income middle class tax rate [0]: 22%, some at 24% Marginal capital gains rate for a fairly generous set of assumptions that benefit your argument: 15%. 24% is 60% higher, not 300% higher, than 15%. That's more or less taking the best-case for your argument. Add FICA contributions…

The parent has a fair point though: why would capital gains ever be taxes at a rate different from income?

Re: In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

#32

Post by lolthishuman »

choeger wrote: post #3

Also, taxes are money. Essentially, a government issues money to its (armed) servants. It also demands its citizens to pay a certain tax in form of that money. This forces the citizens to work for and sell to the government's servants to obtain that money. Servants are happy, government can continue to govern, citizens, well, who cares, right?

Instead of getting plundered you pay taxes. The rulers learned the fear of plunder is enough.

Re: In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

#33

Post by lukewrites »

adamjb wrote: post #27
kaliali wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like the mafia coming to your door wanting a protection fee but instead the government is much bigger and even pays to punish people for wrong-think like on this site. If you don't pay your taxes and fight back, the government will send its servants to kill you or beat you until money pops out.

Tired: the government is like the mafia Wired: the mafia is like the government

Inspired: mafernment

Re: In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

#34

Post by FredPret »

epgui wrote: post #15
Grim-444 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a common strawman argument to paint the argument as black and white, that either you want taxes or you want zero taxes. When in reality there's many shades of grey. The majority of people that complain about taxes don't want zero taxation, they just want to be taxed fairly, with proper representation, and for the government to make proper use of the money they do take, with accountability, before demanding more…

These are things that everyone want, they don't really distinguish those who complain about taxes from those who don't. I'd propose, simplistically, that people who demand tax cuts have in common the following characteristics: - they may be confused about the role(s) of taxation - they may not have sat down with pen and paper to try and figure out how to work a government's finances - they may not be aware that a lot…

So the only possible position for an informed, intelligent person is “higher taxes”?

Let’s go for broke and make them 100% then?

Re: In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

#35

Post by nyolfen »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #28
choeger wrote: post #3

Also, taxes are money. Essentially, a government issues money to its (armed) servants. It also demands its citizens to pay a certain tax in form of that money. This forces the citizens to work for and sell to the government's servants to obtain that money. Servants are happy, government can continue to govern, citizens, well, who cares, right?

I learned this theory from David Graeber's Debt . You are a ruler with an army. That army has to be fed. It can just violently take what it needs from the population. But that is disorderly and makes people mad at you. So, instead, you issue money to the soldiers. By why would the population take this money in exchange for food? Even if it's made out of a precious metal, what does a peasant want with gold, when nobod…

the social function of money far predates states: https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/

Re: In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

#37

Post by kortilla »

frankbreetz wrote: post #7
kaliali wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like the mafia coming to your door wanting a protection fee but instead the government is much bigger and even pays to punish people for wrong-think like on this site. If you don't pay your taxes and fight back, the government will send its servants to kill you or beat you until money pops out.

If you don't like taxes why wouldn't you move to a country that doesn't have taxes like Somalia? Is it because taxes pay for security and things you use everyday like infrastructure?

If you like taxes why don’t you move to the country with the highest tax rate? What a stupid argument.

Re: In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

#38

Post by newacct583 »

sokoloff wrote: post #21
newacct583 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extraordinarily bad take. In the US we tax the marginal middle class dollar of income about 3x higher than we do a marginal dollar of investment income. Do we hate the middle class more than wall street? We tax canadian steel more than chinese PCBs. Do we hate the Canadians more than the Chinese? More broadly, this would seek to interpret the lowest-tax anarchies as the most tolerant and loving societies a…

> In the US we tax the marginal middle class dollar of income about 3x higher than we do a marginal dollar of investment income. Marginal income middle class tax rate [0]: 22%, some at 24% Marginal capital gains rate for a fairly generous set of assumptions that benefit your argument: 15%. 24% is 60% higher, not 300% higher, than 15%. That's more or less taking the best-case for your argument. Add FICA contributions…

...you're right. I was figuring a marginal tax rate of about 40% and dividing by 15%, then rounding up. In practice the number is closer to 2x, as you said.

Why does that change the analysis?

Re: In the Beginning, There Were Taxes

#39

Post by ggm »

intergalplan wrote: post #9
kaliali wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like the mafia coming to your door wanting a protection fee but instead the government is much bigger and even pays to punish people for wrong-think like on this site. If you don't pay your taxes and fight back, the government will send its servants to kill you or beat you until money pops out.

God is love. Love is blind. Ray Charles is blind. Ray Charles is God.

Ray Charles is dead, ergo...
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