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There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

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Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#91
post #6

The argument for patents is simple and clear: the alternative is broader use of trade secrets. In a patent regime, a company can (indeed must) publish their process, in exchange for a temporary monopoly on exploiting it commercially. In return, everyone else can learn it, implement it for research, and improve it, at which point the patent no longer applies. Copyright was also compelling in the technological milieu i…

> The argument for patents is simple and clear: the alternative is broader use of trade secrets.

You forget “Benefit from state power to enforce it.” It is a subsidy from the taxpayer to private corporations, even if the patent holders participate a good share: lawyer fees at their expense, but judge salaries aren’t, and it keeps even the supreme courts busy - far from negligible. Guaranteeing patent owners that their implementation will never be used anywhere, and that the state offers this guarantee, is quite a nice gift, which could benefit everyone if people from all walks of life held patents.

If say, patents are mostly held by major corporations, then it is a subsidy from all taxpayers. Whereas trade secrets do not benefit from public enforcement. It is ok to protect everyone’s things because everyone has some, but the state still forbids holding a million dollars on the street because it would be too costly to protect. So we can say no to protecting virtual things when they are too costly for the public and when it distorts the market in favour of big corporations.

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#92
post #2

I wonder how the author would feel about me copying & pasting their article to a few different websites (such as Medium.com), and then collecting both the financial proceeds & the credit.

lol @ three downvotes for asking a question relevant to the article

Ahh HN & tech world, so many snowflakes

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#93
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, people will dump in the billions of dollars of investment developing drugs and getting them past human trials, only to have them immediately be stolen? Removal of IP here means that you've enforced a penalty against innovators and creators, and baked incentives for grifting and leeching straight into the system. The system we have right now is flawed, but the remove all IP argument is even worse. I'll also pre-em…

The flaw with this argument is the assumption that incentives cannot exist towards innovation without IP protections. It's obvious why investors will seldomly invest in non-protected innovation: monopolies are just significantly more lucrative. Absent that incentive, are there no truly no alternatives? Was this assumption ever tested prior to these policies being implemented? I think it's also worth asking why the av…

I'll say this though. The answer to the first one is no, at least on a higher level. Most purple pursue things for their own self interest. Who would invest so much time, resources and effort solely for others gain. They might be great people, but they're rare. Allowing the innovators to profit from their creations nicely aligns incentives.

The problem here is that people love to pick at the current system, but ignore the flaws of their much treasured alternative.

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#94
post #45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you fail to understand is that investment in IP is not the goal, so saying it would no longer be invested in is non-convincing. You have to actually prove that research would slow down but your hypothetical scenarios are not proof. I can just as easily assert that investment and research would happen with or without temporary exclusive legal rights as. Market forces still push for improvement even without exclus…

Research the origins of IP. IP didn't exist forever. It was introduced because it was needed. If you think this is subjective, let me ask you think: you have a popular YouTube channel, your content requires paying writers, actors, VFX teams and editors. Bunch of other people copy your content freely and legally and get most of the ad revenue. You protest: you made this content, you paid for it. Please just link to me…

Innovation existed before IP. To argue it would stop requires a lot of proof.

Your hypothetical scenarios rely on perpetuating the current ways to monetize but again, that isn't the goal. New ways would surface. The world would certainly be different but nothing about your arguments convince the reader that the world would be worse.

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#95
"There are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property"

Oh yes there are! As Cory Doctorow has suggested, the average person couldn't care less about intellectual property/copyright, and this has always been so. Thus, you're never going to see people out demonstrating on the street over it.

The argument for intellectual property is that with most of the population AWOL over the matter, the few who do care are free to lobby politicians to strengthen IP and then proceed to rip us off with even further impunity. And I'm sure they consider our collective ambivalence a damn good argument for keeping it.

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#96
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flaw with this argument is the assumption that incentives cannot exist towards innovation without IP protections. It's obvious why investors will seldomly invest in non-protected innovation: monopolies are just significantly more lucrative. Absent that incentive, are there no truly no alternatives? Was this assumption ever tested prior to these policies being implemented? I think it's also worth asking why the av…

I'll say this though. The answer to the first one is no, at least on a higher level. Most purple pursue things for their own self interest. Who would invest so much time, resources and effort solely for others gain. They might be great people, but they're rare. Allowing the innovators to profit from their creations nicely aligns incentives. The problem here is that people love to pick at the current system, but ignor…

I am extremely skeptical that there is no financial incentive to being first-to-market and building a reputation as an innovator, even at a "higher level", especially when these incentives are completely overshadowed by the ones created by IP. I don't believe all financial incentive disappears just because you eliminate the ability to rent-seek through a state-backed monopoly.

The problem here is that people also love to defend the current system, while actively prohibiting alternatives from ever taking root.

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#97
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you have eaten an apple, it cannot be eaten again. If you plant a crop of wheat on your field this season, your brother cannot also plant a crop of barley there. When you ride your bicycle to work for the day, your neighbour cannot ride the same bicycle to the gym at midday. The quality of scarceness does not come from law, it is inherent. Through owning your house, you get to decide what goes on there and have…

Its not the listener who we serve with intellectual property, its the creator. Of course the listener loses no value, because they in fact do not own the intellectual property, they possess the ability to benefit from it. If there is no protection for intellectual property, its not the listener who loses utility, its the owner of the intellectual property who would like to be rewarded for his work.

The GP post had a sole purpose, to explain scarcity.

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#98
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not the listener who we serve with intellectual property, its the creator. Of course the listener loses no value, because they in fact do not own the intellectual property, they possess the ability to benefit from it. If there is no protection for intellectual property, its not the listener who loses utility, its the owner of the intellectual property who would like to be rewarded for his work.

The GP post had a sole purpose, to explain scarcity.

I was just correcting your statement that there is no inherent scarcity with intellectual property.

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#99

There's zero substance to this is quick blog. > artworks and medicine have been produced for ages without IP law; This is bullshit. What are they even talking about? I think medicine and movies/art and IP were invented around the same time. Last 100 may be 200 years years. In our 100,000 year history that links them pretty well. Wikipedia - "The modern concept of intellectual property developed in England in the 17th…

This comment is the single most compelling argument why STEM must include liberal arts/humanities studies

You will find most STEM people do 'liberal arts/humanities studies' because it reduces our workload and gets us high distinctions.

I got trouble because they saw me 'hacking' the system a bit working them in.

Re: There Are No Good Arguments for Intellectual Property (2010)

#100
post #6

The argument for patents is simple and clear: the alternative is broader use of trade secrets. In a patent regime, a company can (indeed must) publish their process, in exchange for a temporary monopoly on exploiting it commercially. In return, everyone else can learn it, implement it for research, and improve it, at which point the patent no longer applies. Copyright was also compelling in the technological milieu i…

I'd have to agree. The author listed arguments and wrote as if those arguments, as phrased, are the only ones... which is a Strawman argument.
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