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“My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

nautil.us

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Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#61

Post by freewilly1040 »

The thing I didn't much like about this movie was that the ending tried to put an activist spin on what the filmmaker was doing. One of the last shots is of him and a bunch of his friends going out on a dive (as opposed to just him), as if this will help the octopus somehow.

In fact, the relationship between him and the octopus only works because the filmmaker has a large patch of pristine coast seemingly to himself. If it was some common thing to go diving there the habitat would likely be destroyed. As such the film is not really about activism at all, it's about a man enjoying privileged access to a natural resource.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#62

Post by lm28469 »

shuntress wrote: post #36
BEEdwards wrote: post #22

I did not like this documentary at all, i don't get the point of it at all... A privileged white dude complains about how he feels disconnected from his family, so he spends a year harassing an octopus. It literally tries to run away and he stalks it, it's creepy.

I was expecting some kind of mention of this guy's apparent privilege. As I recall, not even a single line in one of the talking-head section even as simple as "I've been incredibly lucky to be at a place in my life where I have the resources to make this film." I found this lack to be particularly off-putting when the general message (of this otherwise good documentary) is more-or-less "You can strengthen your soul…

You should go out and take a deep breath of reality. People in real life, especially outside of the US, aren't obsessed with talking about their or other people's privileges every time you put a microphone in front of their face.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#63

Post by benlivengood »

Avalaxy wrote: post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

> It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal species, but when it involves humans this statement suddenly becomes extremely controversial.

Because historically people mistook skin color and phrenology and other nonsense for "good genes" and caused grave injustices. The attitudes aren't even fully eliminated and so eugenics is rightly viewed with suspicion.

"Breeding" is also the crudest of methods to produce "good" humans because we value relationships and individuals much more than we do cattle or show dogs. Medicine is the proper science to treat disease in humans.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#64

Post by potatoman22 »

an_opabinia wrote: post #40
noisy_boy wrote: post #2

For me the moment the Octopus overcame its outwardly appearance is when she was extending her arms and playing with the school of fish; exactly like a dog (which I can relate about much more easily). I could literally imagine myself in that spot extending my arms to play with the fish in the same way. If anyone hasn't seen this documentary, I highly recommend it. My kids loved it too.

I don’t know. It’s a bunch of different octopuses for starters, so the whole premise is pretty flawed. It’s definitely not the same octopus. If you interact with them in the wild, at least I have, they are pretty easy to catch at daytime, and then they’re very curious and interact a lot, smelling your hair and touching everything (your scuba gear) after a moment of trying to jet. In some habitats they are not elusive…

The documentary focuses on a single octopus, unless you're suggesting that the premise of the documentary is one big lie.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#65

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

shuntress wrote: post #36
BEEdwards wrote: post #22

I did not like this documentary at all, i don't get the point of it at all... A privileged white dude complains about how he feels disconnected from his family, so he spends a year harassing an octopus. It literally tries to run away and he stalks it, it's creepy.

I was expecting some kind of mention of this guy's apparent privilege. As I recall, not even a single line in one of the talking-head section even as simple as "I've been incredibly lucky to be at a place in my life where I have the resources to make this film." I found this lack to be particularly off-putting when the general message (of this otherwise good documentary) is more-or-less "You can strengthen your soul…

> this guy's apparent privilege.

This was filmed near Simon's Town, near Cape Town (1)

One can feel blessed living in that part of the world near beach and mountains. There are also still some appalling 3rd world tin-shack slums in Cape Town. It's a part of the world where the privilege is very easy to see, if you care to see it.

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Octopus_Teacher

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#66

Post by uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh »

freewilly1040 wrote: post #61

The thing I didn't much like about this movie was that the ending tried to put an activist spin on what the filmmaker was doing. One of the last shots is of him and a bunch of his friends going out on a dive (as opposed to just him), as if this will help the octopus somehow. In fact, the relationship between him and the octopus only works because the filmmaker has a large patch of pristine coast seemingly to himself.…

Very reductionist. But to carry it forward, this is more about a man's failure to extract labor out of an octopus and instead being forced to exploit its screen appeal. Imagine the output of an 8 armed ipad assembler, ah what could have been!

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#67

Post by shuntress »

awb wrote: post #51
shuntress wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This specific story is explicitly personal and delivers a personal message, rather than an objective "Here is an octopus in it's natural environment." "I was unhappy in my life so I spent time personally connecting with and understanding nature and now I feel more fulfilled and whole as a person" is likely to cause viewers who think "Yikes, I sure wish I could afford to drop everything go swimming every day" to respo…

> is likely to cause viewers who think "Yikes, I sure wish I could afford to drop everything go swimming every day" to respond with resentment Really? I doubt given the choice that many people would choose to dedicate a year to daily cold water swimming and filmmaking. And we have no idea about the financial arrangements. Maybe he pitched the idea and got an advance. And we don’t know if he was consulting on the side…

> Really?

Yes. I do not doubt given the choice that many people would choose to dedicate a year to daily cold water swimming and filmmaking.

> And we have no idea about the financial arrangements.

Maybe it could be anything. But the story as presented in the movie is: a burnt-out white guy (who lives in an ocean-view villa in South Africa) spends every day filming an octopus.

> I don’t need all my characters to be fully self-aware or without flaws to find them engaging.

I'm not talking about all characters and I don't understand why you are.

> I didn’t assume you had an agenda. Why did you assume that?

Because I made what I thought was a relatively small and reasonable observation. Your response (instead of engaging with that point perhaps by arguing that My Octopus Teacher is improved by the fact that the main character seems like an out of touch "What's a banana cost? Ten dollars?" rich guy) was to bring in wild hyperbole about applying this specific observation to every one in every thing couched in the extremely broad statement "Any popular documentary is the result of privilege somewhere along the line."

> I meant “what’s the goal” as in “what’s the point”

To craft a more resonant/engaging story

> “why is that important to you”

Because I like engaging stories that feel fully thought out.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#68

Post by shuntress »

mycologos wrote: post #60
shuntress wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, an explicit discussion of privilege would have made this a significantly different movie but please note that I said I was looking for "A small acknowledgement" rather than "an explicit discussion" .

Interesting, so literally one sentence somewhere like "Luckily, I had time and savings to figure things out. So, I started going to the shore..." would have made a big difference?

I think so, yes.

Or maybe instead of "Luckily, I had time and savings to figure things out." something just slightly more verbose like "I have been extremely fortunate in my life to have the time and savings to figure things out"

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#69

Post by phamilton »

jbotz wrote: post #48
simmerup wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very rational to want the treatment of humans to be held to a high standard when you yourself are a human.

But I am also a primate, mammal, vertebrate, animal, terran life-form. And going the other direction I am homo sapiens as opposed to neanderthal, caucasian, German, member of my specific family. Why draw a sharp line specifically at "human"..?

> going the other direction

Many do go in this other direction.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#70

Post by camjohnson26 »

drew55555 wrote: post #49
jbotz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I am also a primate, mammal, vertebrate, animal, terran life-form. And going the other direction I am homo sapiens as opposed to neanderthal, caucasian, German, member of my specific family. Why draw a sharp line specifically at "human"..?

Because humans are made in the image and likeness of God.

It is true that without a foundation for human exceptionalism, like belief that humans were designed for a special purpose by a higher power, it becomes very difficult to answer ethical questions of why humans should be treated differently than other animals. The eugenics movement was strong in American institutions in the early 20th century.
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