Earlier quoted context omitted.
They can put people in jail for using crypto, which is a strong enough deterrent that 99% of people won't do it.
Yeah because it worked so well for piracy. /s
Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
251–260 of 302 posts
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The central bank has brought so much lira with its foreign currency reserve to try to maintain the price that it is almost running dry of any foreign currency, making the future look even bleaker." All it needs to do is stop doing that and make it clear to the market that it will no longer do that. That removes the patsy from the market and the currency will find its level. What you have to do is make lira scarce. A…
> putting into administration any firm borrowing in foreign currency but earning in lira, and then refinancing them with lira loans. This isn't really an option. No lender is going to exchange foreign denominated loans for Lira denominated loans during a currency crisis. If he really cannot get the country's finances in order, he's better off just defaulting on all the loans, and starting fresh like Russia did.
They won't get that chance. When the firm is put into administration those foreign loans will be written off, which pushes the loss home to where it belongs - people lending in dollars to entities that have unhedged income in lira.
The state/local investors then buy the firm out of administration with lira loans.
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, let's destroy financial systems of governments and substitute it with a system that has 7 tps cap in which the majority of coins belongs to unknown entities (supposedly of criminal origin).
You don't need an on-chain transaction for most things, as you can just instantly send BTC over Lightning Network, a second layer on the BTC blockchain. There's no speed limit, it's not on the chain, only nodes between you and the node you paying are involved. It's pretty neat.
- It forces everyone who wants to receive money to constantly run a node at all times. If their node goes down at any time (or is intentionally taken down by a hacker), in certain situations, they could lose money.
- The channel provider needs to lock up a massive amount of BTC to provide liquidity to channels for all users. It costs BTC to open the channels.
- It's brittle because you need many watchtower nodes to constantly monitor every single participant in real time in order to ensure that nobody cheats and rolls back valid transactions.
- Watchtowers could be fooled by attackers to spend all their processing time on fake frauds to distract them from real frauds.
And there are a lot more serious vulnerabilities outlined here: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-lightning-network-vulnerabi...
I think for high volume payment processing, we might as well use centralized payment providers off-chain.
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#254For context: Turkey has been facing an several year long financial crisis with the Turkish Lira plummeting in value. Erdoğan has done nothing good to solve the crisis and is just firing the central bank administrator one after the other. The central bank has brought so much lira with its foreign currency reserve to try to maintain the price that it is almost running dry of any foreign currency, making the future look…
Basically one of the exact reasons why Crypto should exist.
If Bitcoin is global currency system then there's no chance of using such a mechanism-tool-lever, however with current system of governments it can be used; Biden's recent financial acids actions against Putin's actions against the US is another example of this.
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#255It hasnt‘t to be banned officially to be banned effectively. - Here in Germany buying and owning crypto currencies is not illegal. But try to transfer only 20k Euros from your bank account to Kraken.com to buy some crypto assets. Then you might get a letter from your bank telling you they just cancelled your bank account, without telling you why. And they will refuse to explain anything. - Trying to get background in…
> eventually we wake up in a pretty darn restrictive world where you can‘t even transfer 10k euros from A to B without having to explain things This is the exact problem cryptocurrencies were invented to solve. We're supposed to be free to spend our money without the indignity of having to explain things to some bank or government. The better the technology, the more tyrannical the government must become to maintain…
Why do you think that?
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lightning and sidechains can handle thousands of TPS. Monero has adaptive block sizes, and is estimated to be able to perform 1500-2000TPS. Privacy is a feature, not a bug. I don't want people knowing how much money I have.
If money is opaque then it also cannot be taxed or seized by judicial process. IMO this moves further towards an aristocratic society as possession goes from 90% → 100% to the law.
Is this supposed to be bad? Look at what the US government does with civil forfeiture. Can't do that with cryptocurrencies and that's a good thing.
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cash is opaque, yet governments have been funding themselves via taxation for thousands of years. If government charged a flat rate for its services, tax evasion would become impossible. One would simply show a proof of payment. This would only be ~$10k/year in US according to its current tax receipts and population. Property tax is also impossible to evade.
Yes, but most people don't keep cash in a box under the bed - they keep it in a bank. This means my elderly mother's house doesn't get broken in to on a regular basis by people trying to take her life savings. Furthermore, her cash in a bank is protected by the government, and there are safeguards in place to help protect her from people trying to scam anything she has saved away from her. There are also mechanisms i…
> The caveat, of course, is I say this living in a country with great free medical care, that's actually a pretty nice place to live
Unfortunately, not every country is nice. Not every country uses taxes for the benefits of its citizens. Some countries have governments so thoroughly corrupt even the bare minimum only gets done before elections. Some countries have government officials who purchase goods and services at incredibly inflated prices so they can pocket the difference. Government officials who steal money meant for COVID-19 vaccines.
If you're from such a country, paying taxes is really no different than financing any other type of criminal operation. In these cases, avoiding taxes is a moral imperative. In these places, it's the duty of every single citizen to pay as little taxes as they can get away with.
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, let's destroy financial systems of governments and substitute it with a system that has 7 tps cap in which the majority of coins belongs to unknown entities (supposedly of criminal origin).
So you don't think it's valuable to give people power over their incompetent government? 7tps on the base layer, you're ignoring layer 2s and all other places where you can exchange crypto without it being recorded on the blockchain, as a matter of fact, unless you're buying directly from a miner, the single transaction that you use to put it in your wallet actually corresponds to many other transactions elsewhere. >…
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
* False on criminal origin majority, majority is non-criminal [1] * roughly false on unknown entities for two reasons. 1) btc is fairly easy to surveil [1], and see Chainalysis 2) logic here doesn’t make sense. Are you saying you know all owners of cash deposits, or just assuming someone does? A lot of folks keep cash “in a mattress.” Is that bad as well, as it’s a mirror of holding crypto? [1] https://decrypt.co/664…
[1] doesn't say anything like that.
- me: criminal activity not a majority of btc use and severely overstated overall, and it enables surveillance, aka intelligence gathering for LEO/IC if properly utilized.
- 30 year veteran, ex-deputy director of the CIA:
“However, based on our research and discussions with industry experts, I have confidence in two conclusions: • The broad generalizations about the use of Bitcoin in illicit finance are significantly overstated. • The blockchain ledger on which Bitcoin transac- tions are recorded is an underutilized forensic tool that can be used more widely by law enforcement and the intelligence community to identify and dis- rupt illicit activities. Put simply, blockchain analysis is a highly effective crime fighting and intelligence gathering tool.”
“ All of this together suggests a broader point—that the illicit use of cryptocurrencies in general and Bitcoin in particular, as a share of total market activity, is cer- tainly not higher than it is in the traditional banking system and is most likely less”
Quite literally does say something/anything like what I said.
Re: Turkey bans use of cryptocurrencies for payments
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
> putting into administration any firm borrowing in foreign currency but earning in lira, and then refinancing them with lira loans. This isn't really an option. No lender is going to exchange foreign denominated loans for Lira denominated loans during a currency crisis. If he really cannot get the country's finances in order, he's better off just defaulting on all the loans, and starting fresh like Russia did.
> No lender is going to exchange foreign denominated loans for Lira denominated loans during a currency crisis. They won't get that chance. When the firm is put into administration those foreign loans will be written off, which pushes the loss home to where it belongs - people lending in dollars to entities that have unhedged income in lira. The state/local investors then buy the firm out of administration with lira…
...which eliminates their ability to borrow money for several years. And that can have severe impacts on the trade that exists today as creditors scramble to seize Turkish assets held in foreign banks/ports/contracts.
It's a much much more destructive move than what you're describing.