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“My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

nautil.us

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Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#31

Post by Sporktacular »

LatteLazy wrote: post #17
uyt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea because humans aren't animals. Our behaviors haven't been dominated by our genes for quite some time.

I'm not OP but I don't think either of those statements is accurate. We don't engage in eugenics and we do engage in medical care because people are more than animals and we value individual survival more than gene pool hygiene (might be the wrong term?)

Humans aren't the only species to tend to their injured. Even some ants do that. The motivation is still debatable - is it done selflessly or because cooperation improves our own chances? Could that mean empathy is just an evolved impulse to help ourselves that was naturally selected? In some animals there may be an element of maintaining appearances that complicates things further. But there's no evidence to suggest that we aren't animals too or that the line we draw to separate less from 'more' isn't just drawn in some arbitrary place.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#32

Post by Avalaxy »

js2 wrote: post #27

I enjoyed reading this interview a lot. I appreciate the perspective and knowledge that Craig Foster offers into the ecosystem he is so familiar with. But with the documentary, it was the opposite. The cinematography is gorgeous and many of the scenes that were captured were truly remarkable because he spent so much time in the water. The footage of the octopus and the sharks was just extraordinary. However, I really…

> I really found the way Craig injected himself into the story to be a distraction and wish this had been more like Sir David Attenborough documentary

Can you already see this 94 years old guy jumping into the water to build a personal relationship with an octopus? ;) I think the whole point of the movie was not capturing the life of the octopus, but showing the relationship between human and octopus. This would not be possible with the way Attenborough documents things (i.e. as a narrator).

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#33

Post by gregshap »

Avalaxy wrote: post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

Also frowned upon when done to humans, but accepted by most humans in regard to animals: slavery, raising for food, taxidermy, hunting for sport, neutering and keeping as pets, etc.

Some people don't think this treatment is appropriate for non-human animals either.

Personally I eat other animals, but I'm against both eugenics and cannibalism.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#34

Post by Avalaxy »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #29
Avalaxy wrote: post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

Humans are supposedly born with inalienable rights - life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. Our societies in the West are built upon this shared foundation of rights. To deprive any adults of the ability to procreate would be considered barbaric, as they want to pursue the creation of "life" with their liberty, and to support their own happiness. Meanwhile, nature is just raw competition, we're used to talking abou…

> To deprive any adults of the ability to procreate would be considered barbaric

There are two ways to look at this. There is a difference between forbidding people to procreate, for example by forced sterilization, and simply not forcing things with unnatural interventions, for example with IVF for people who cannot conceive in a natural way. I don't think it's barbaric to see IVF as detrimental to the human gene pool.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#35

Post by ble »

Avalaxy wrote: post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

The history of 'scientific' human eugenics is absolutely full of controversies and links to controversial things like involuntary sterilization campaigns, genocides, etc.

Oddly, people tend to get touchy when someone starts trying to provide justifications that decide who will live well, poorly, or not at all.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#36

Post by shuntress »

BEEdwards wrote: post #22

I did not like this documentary at all, i don't get the point of it at all... A privileged white dude complains about how he feels disconnected from his family, so he spends a year harassing an octopus. It literally tries to run away and he stalks it, it's creepy.

I was expecting some kind of mention of this guy's apparent privilege.

As I recall, not even a single line in one of the talking-head section even as simple as "I've been incredibly lucky to be at a place in my life where I have the resources to make this film." I found this lack to be particularly off-putting when the general message (of this otherwise good documentary) is more-or-less "You can strengthen your soul by connecting with nature".

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#37

Post by js2 »

Avalaxy wrote: post #32
js2 wrote: post #27

I enjoyed reading this interview a lot. I appreciate the perspective and knowledge that Craig Foster offers into the ecosystem he is so familiar with. But with the documentary, it was the opposite. The cinematography is gorgeous and many of the scenes that were captured were truly remarkable because he spent so much time in the water. The footage of the octopus and the sharks was just extraordinary. However, I really…

> I really found the way Craig injected himself into the story to be a distraction and wish this had been more like Sir David Attenborough documentary Can you already see this 94 years old guy jumping into the water to build a personal relationship with an octopus? ;) I think the whole point of the movie was not capturing the life of the octopus, but showing the relationship between human and octopus. This would not…

Sure, but I didn't need to hear CF's life story. He could've presented the octopus and his interaction with it without all that. Almost everyone I've talked to found it to detract from the documentary.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#38

Post by whateveracct »

Avalaxy wrote: post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

It's a lot harder to play god of men than of wild animals.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#39

Post by awb »

BEEdwards wrote: post #22

I did not like this documentary at all, i don't get the point of it at all... A privileged white dude complains about how he feels disconnected from his family, so he spends a year harassing an octopus. It literally tries to run away and he stalks it, it's creepy.

> A privileged white dude complains about how he feels disconnected from his family

I thought he was suffering from burnout. Regardless, it's possible to be rich and sad at the same time. You don't have to have empathy for the guy if you don't want to, but if we're turning suffering into a competition, there will always be someone with bigger problems than you.

> It literally tries to run away and he stalks it, it's creepy.

Scientists observe animals that try to run away all the time. And it did approach him on multiple occasions as well.

I found it to be a fascinating case study in the life of an octopus in it's natural environment. These long form animal documentaries are a lot more interesting to me than "Earth" or the like where it's a rapid fire, quick form snapshot into multiple animal species.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#40

Post by an_opabinia »

noisy_boy wrote: post #2

For me the moment the Octopus overcame its outwardly appearance is when she was extending her arms and playing with the school of fish; exactly like a dog (which I can relate about much more easily). I could literally imagine myself in that spot extending my arms to play with the fish in the same way. If anyone hasn't seen this documentary, I highly recommend it. My kids loved it too.

I don’t know. It’s a bunch of different octopuses for starters, so the whole premise is pretty flawed. It’s definitely not the same octopus.

If you interact with them in the wild, at least I have, they are pretty easy to catch at daytime, and then they’re very curious and interact a lot, smelling your hair and touching everything (your scuba gear) after a moment of trying to jet.

In some habitats they are not elusive at all, easy to find in very obvious preferred hiding places.

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