431–440 of 808 posts
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You just install any JDK in any directory - nothing to configure there - and then point IntelliJ to this directory... If this is hard, then... hmmm....
That is a perfect demonstration of the toxic attitude I’ve come to expect from Java fanatics.
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"Don't let them use the appropriate/preferred tool for the job and see how much fun it is" is a fairly nonsensical proposal for pretty much every profession.
I can't think of one other major programming language that relies so heavily on the IDE to do the development work, can you?
More seriously, IDEs exist and work, so if people are productive with them, what does "but you'd be less productive if you didn't have your IDE!" gain us? C++ is a bit less verbose, but still the wide majority of devs uses an IDE with it because it does useful things. Programmers of Lisp etc use editors that have tools to edit Lisp files better. etc. I get not liking the existing options as a matter of personal taste, but that's different.
This post from "an ignorant computer science undergrad" is pretty silly, so allow me to get a little silly in response. I think if Java's new features are an attempt to woo new developers, Java comes off pretty tragically, like the old guy in the club, trying stay relevant by showing off how it just got up to date with ideas that hit the mainstream ten years ago. Whoa, check out these record classes! Fresh stuff over…
I'm sure that Java developers have a vision which they're moving to. They're trying to convert old language into a new one with immutable classes, pattern-matching, green threads, modular JVM, all that stuff. May be I'll like that new language, but so far I'm a little bit unsatisfied. And, as it seems, young people are not that impressed either.
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But you are not going to get higher performance in Rust/Go.
Rust can literally contain inline asm so yes, you will. But even without that, the startup time is always going to be faster. And for IO, you will get faster perf in Go more easily. Sure, you can finely tune your Java code to get there, but it's a lot harder. It in both cases it will eat up way more memory. There is a reason Google, that did use heavily Java internally, is now moving to Go, a language they custom des…
Perhaps Java isn't the most popular tool in the shed but its LTS story is unstoppable. I rank Java with Apple/Microsoft, in terms of respecting developers' investments in their APIs.
For my use cases, Java has all the wrong compromises: - not high level enough to compete with Python/Ruby/JS/PHP, etc - not low level enough to compete with Rust/D/Nim/Zig - not specialized enough to compete with Erlang/R/Go/Julia - not opinionated enough to compete with Lisp/Haskell So why use Java ? It's good, it's fast, it's productive, it's well supported, battle tested and documented for decades with a huge pool…
WELL SUPPORTED???? Have you ever coded a real thing in python?
I'm getting "Warning, no longer supported" console messages in all my basic well established tools and libraries written in python because a guy that lives in a world of academics and theory and not in a world of business and delivery dates decided that python3 was not going to have backwards compatibility with python2 because they made a massive irreparable disaster when they designed python2.
That is not a professional tool for multi-million dollar companies, that is a toy for spoiled nerds. Exactly the same that Visual Basic 5-6 were when I was starting. Extremely easy to use and extremely fast, at the price of been garbage for anything larger than a toy app.
And because all the kids learned that at uni and went to create the next thing in it like PyTorch and TensorFlow, now you have to do all the real code in C / C++ to handle what python can't in terms of speed an reliability, doubling you code base, your Dev teams, and the needed skill set.
I have been programing in java in large multinationals for 10 years and I used python every single day for the past 3 years for what its useful: small hacky scripts to increase productivity. The real sh*t that manages you cellphone towers, you home-banking, you online shopping, your logistic chain and your android cellphone apps, all things that I have worked on, gets done in Java.
For my use cases, Java has all the wrong compromises: - not high level enough to compete with Python/Ruby/JS/PHP, etc - not low level enough to compete with Rust/D/Nim/Zig - not specialized enough to compete with Erlang/R/Go/Julia - not opinionated enough to compete with Lisp/Haskell So why use Java ? It's good, it's fast, it's productive, it's well supported, battle tested and documented for decades with a huge pool…
I think the problem is because of the virtual machine, instead of being compiled to an executable. I mean GraalVM is great - but why did it take so long to develop? I mean Sun could still be alive if developers and users had instant startup times, could have easily deployed Java to servers and clients, and that it was not only faster but used way less memory.
Startup times are not an issue on servers as processes are typically long-lived anyway. It is a bit of an issue on serverless (lambda etc.) but that’s a relatively new thing. High memory usage is generally poor tuning - if you give the JVM 1gb it will use it and avoid GC until it needs to. Sometimes it’s poor coding too, I’ve seen web APIs accepting files as base64 encoded json strings which is horrific server side.
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You just install any JDK in any directory - nothing to configure there - and then point IntelliJ to this directory... If this is hard, then... hmmm....
Acting like Java tooling isn't more difficult than other languages is dishonest. Starting with a Java project is considerably more complex than with most other languages. "Missing manifest" or issues with classpaths are not intuitive.
Honestly I haven't had to deal with the issues you talk about in the last five years (which is as long as I've been writing java commercially, before that I was mostly a C developer).
Having had recent experience with Go and Javascript/Node, I can't say either struck me as especially easier or more intuitive to get started with.