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Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

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401–410 of 578 posts

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#401
post #159

It’s a simple equation: So long as there is more money in mining BTC than there is cost in energy to mine it, mining will proceed. No entity in the world can control the price of crypto. But, we can and already do regulate energy production. I think we need a carbon tax, that is specifically a financial disincentive towards any means of energy production that directly pollutes the atmosphere. Seriously, what are the…

To me it seems like Bitcoin (and other pow cryptocurrencies) are almost like the climate change scapegoat for a number of social and economic issues that have seemingly come to a head recently to facilitate their rise. People mine because it is expensive, it isn't the other way around, so the real questions we should be asking in good faith are things like "Why it is profitable in the first place?" and I think it is…

Since the cryptos electricity usage, at least that part which is generated by fossils, is a real problem (it is) - it would be nice to see this problem addressed with blockchain technologies.

Carbon offset tokens, or some token that will increase in value when cryptos global electricity usage goes up, and offsets with renewable projects. If it were funded by governments in billions of dollars it would make an impact, and everyone could participate in funding the token.

The problem must be addressed in altering the fossil/non-fossil energy mix. You are not going to control the financial incentive to mine, or kindly ask ppl to use less electricity please. Carbon taxes have been proposed but you would have to get that done globally, they are certainly working on that from a political perspective but you never know there are always resistance to a new tax.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#402
post #115

Just to point out the obvious, the headline is heavily editorialized and misleading. Current HN headline: "Bitcoin miners are buying power plants" Actual headline: "A New Threat to New York’s Clean Energy Goals: Bitcoin Mining" It's trying to imply that buying power plants is some hot new trend, but the article is about a single crazy dude in New York buying a single plant.

I have sources who have purchased hydro plants in South America and refineries with installed power production and use the excess capacity for mining. My feeling it’s more common than a single crazy dude.

> hydro plants in South America

Which?

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t just miners, car industry fucked it as well

What car companies are buying GPUs in large quantities?

Not GPUs specifically but shortage of chips as a whole is causing some problems

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#407

Easy solution: tax carbon emissions. Who cares if you’re using energy to mine Bitcoin? Or if you’re using it to play video games? Or to run the AC all day? If it you’re internalizing the cost of any emissions, then you’ll use those resources efficiently.

Hard to do this when you can have other countries with much looser regulations allow Bitcoin miners run rampant. What probably should happen is to make converting from any cryptocurrency to major world currencies a crime. I have no delusions that this will halt activity in this sector entirely, but it will make it reasonably difficult to make any substantial money this way without raising some serious eyebrows.

A carbon tax won't halt activity but it could cause the price to drop. If Bitcoin drops to $300, it is no longer profitable to mine. I agree that making it illegal would help. Main street would be loathe to depend on wire transfers to Hong Kong to transfer in/out. However, given Coinbase just went public, there will (unfortunately) be way too much political pressure to kill the segment.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#408
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most stock owners hope this very thing, t" Stocks imply ownership of assets. Sure, in terms of 'hoping that someone willy buy' is similar to BTC, but the valuation is completely different. A stock is valued based on the performance of it's actual profit generation. BTC is just a made up number. It's what people think the crowd will buy it for. Granted, this mechanism itself can be useful in some scenarios, but BTC i…

> A stock is valued based on the performance of it's actual profit generation. I'm not sure that's the case any more. I mean we've seen billion dollar companies that just can't reach profitability.

You still can't call it till they actually go bankrupt. And most of them don't - the underlying business and assets get sold off or absorbed somewhere else. And at the end of the day there's an actual service they provide - value is being created, just potentially not profitably.

Bitcoin is the opposite: what value it had (international transfers for Americans who live with one of the first world's worst banking systems) has been completely wiped out by the cost of transactions.

At the end of the day the hashes are valueless, no one has a product, or designs, or even any useful code.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to do this when you can have other countries with much looser regulations allow Bitcoin miners run rampant. What probably should happen is to make converting from any cryptocurrency to major world currencies a crime. I have no delusions that this will halt activity in this sector entirely, but it will make it reasonably difficult to make any substantial money this way without raising some serious eyebrows.

A carbon tax won't halt activity but it could cause the price to drop. If Bitcoin drops to $300, it is no longer profitable to mine. I agree that making it illegal would help. Main street would be loathe to depend on wire transfers to Hong Kong to transfer in/out. However, given Coinbase just went public, there will (unfortunately) be way too much political pressure to kill the segment.

Why would the carbon tax drastically drop bitcoin price? If electricity price increases, the difficulty dicreases.

As far as the difficulty stays high enough to keep the network secure the markets don't have a reason to care.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#410
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly is your issue with a growing money supply? The primary issue is that simply sitting on a dragon's hoard of money should entitle me to a bigger share of the world's wealth, as time goes on, rather than a smaller share.

Socially, why? I could see making the argument for 'the same share, in perpetuity' as that is kind of the whole idea of what money is: parking value in some way. Why bigger, exactly? What is the justification?

Sarcasm (I presume) doesn't transfer well on the internet. The parent is pointing out the absurdity of the whole idea of deflationary currency: sit and do nothing, and force the next generation to turn over more of their productivity then you ever produced.
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