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Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

nysfocus.com

341–350 of 578 posts

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#341
post #268
post #263

Solution: Carbon emission tax.

Should that apply to all digital computations? Data centers? Youtube? Facebook? Should they and bitcoin be seen on the same level?

None of those emit GHG by themselves, you usually tax emissions at the source: power plants. So yes, digital computations will be "taxed" if they use fossil-fuel energy.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What probably should happen is to make converting from any cryptocurrency to major world currencies a crime. I have a better idea, let's make everything that causes pollution a crime. Bought a plastic water bottle? Straight to jail. Refueled your car? Yep, jail. You used your heater? Believe it or not, jail. I'm sure we'll live in a pollution free utopia in no time. Thank you for your insightful contribution. This i…

Any idea can be exaggerated out of sanity bounds. If you do not see the difference between the incentives and criminalizing/punishment this is your own problem.

Criminalizing cryptocurrency was already exaggerated out of sanity bounds.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#343
post #263

Solution: Carbon emission tax.

If using a GPU to mine crypto is unethical shouldn't using a GPU to do things like videogames and rending hollywood super hero movies should also be taxed I mean they both run GPUs at 100% for hundreds of hours. Perhaps computing power in general should be capped so it can only use small amounts of power.

If they use fossil-fuel plants, yes, though the tax would be applied to the energy generation, not energy use.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#344

It’s a simple equation: So long as there is more money in mining BTC than there is cost in energy to mine it, mining will proceed. No entity in the world can control the price of crypto. But, we can and already do regulate energy production. I think we need a carbon tax, that is specifically a financial disincentive towards any means of energy production that directly pollutes the atmosphere. Seriously, what are the…

> I think we need a carbon tax

I think we need a carbon quota. Something grounded in the hard reality, not a tax you can bypass or finance indefinitely with a money printing machine (edit: or bitcoin :).

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#345

It’s a simple equation: So long as there is more money in mining BTC than there is cost in energy to mine it, mining will proceed. No entity in the world can control the price of crypto. But, we can and already do regulate energy production. I think we need a carbon tax, that is specifically a financial disincentive towards any means of energy production that directly pollutes the atmosphere. Seriously, what are the…

The price of bitcoin will only rise if it's more pricey to mine. Miners will never (or almost never) sell their new bitcoins against a lower price than they invested.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#346
post #275

It’s a simple equation: So long as there is more money in mining BTC than there is cost in energy to mine it, mining will proceed. No entity in the world can control the price of crypto. But, we can and already do regulate energy production. I think we need a carbon tax, that is specifically a financial disincentive towards any means of energy production that directly pollutes the atmosphere. Seriously, what are the…

We know since many decades that a carbon price might be a good idea. But it's not that simple, because either you do it worldwide or you introduce lots of exceptions or you do something like carbon import tariffs (which the EU wants to do, but I think no such mechanism exists anywhere in the world right now). Bottom line is: Most of the world has no carbon price, and the places that do have one (e.g. the EU ETS) ther…

It already worked in Australia until conservatives and vested interests ran an aggressive media campaign, facilitated by Newscorp. Emissions dropped. Consumers didnt notice a hike in prices, or where they did, switched.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#347
Many of the comments here are asking the wrong question - its not a matter of whether miners should be able to buy power plants and licences; so much as why it was cost effective for a disused coal plant to be acquired instead of a purchase of 25% of a specific wind farm's output, for example - the latter would drive renewable expansion, and the energy industry is already all over the fact this is the most cost effective way forward.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#348
post #260

This might be a good thing. There are a few responses possible: 1. Do nothing, public gets angry. 2. Make bitcoin, or its mining, illegal. However, what is the criteria? All blockchains? Should google be illegal too? Both are just a digital product that the public wants. 3. Tax CO2 production by data centers, that might have a chance it can be coordinated broadly between nations, there is enough money there to tax, a…

"Should google be illegal too?" is a pretty ridiculous extrapolation. Nobody would go that far, a regulation like that doesn't achieve any climate goals and would have massive economic impact. You can probably provide an example that isn't wholly implausible like online banking? Even then, it is possible to draw a line.

Who draws that line? Corrupt politicians? Million dollar lobbying? Lines are smokescreen in front of the real problem. They mostly serve to protect the establishment. Ok, no more bitcoin, but what about the heavily subsidized dairy industry, the oil industry, and all the other that pollute heavily?

If a solution requires a "line" or makes no sense at the extreme, it's most likely not a solution.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#349

It’s a simple equation: So long as there is more money in mining BTC than there is cost in energy to mine it, mining will proceed. No entity in the world can control the price of crypto. But, we can and already do regulate energy production. I think we need a carbon tax, that is specifically a financial disincentive towards any means of energy production that directly pollutes the atmosphere. Seriously, what are the…

> if energy were priced correctly ... would BTC become higher in value? ... If energy were to become more expensive, the growth in supply would slow.

It doesn't work like that. The consensus algorithm targets 1 block mined every 10 minutes. If the amount of energy expended goes up (i.e. blocks are mined more frequently) then the difficulty increases to counteract it. If the rate of block production decreases, then the difficulty decreases to counteract it.

This page has more information: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty

(I've used "difficulty" here in the English-language way. Confusingly, "difficulty" is kind of backwards in Bitcoin - the "difficulty" is a number that a mined block hash must be below - it gets more "difficult" to mine a block if the "difficulty" number is lower. Maybe it should be called "easiness" instead of "difficulty").

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#350
post #263

Solution: Carbon emission tax.

If using a GPU to mine crypto is unethical shouldn't using a GPU to do things like videogames and rending hollywood super hero movies should also be taxed I mean they both run GPUs at 100% for hundreds of hours. Perhaps computing power in general should be capped so it can only use small amounts of power.

Carbon tax is not about making something illegal.

You playing a game 4h/day is nothing compared to 1000 gpus mining 24/7. One is pennies in tax and the other would (presumably) be way more significant.

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