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Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

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Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#301

Post by originalvichy »

admax88q wrote: post #186

All this talk about Bitcoin causing global warming is starting to feel like a targetted misinformation campaign. Yes it's wasteful, and yes it's using a fair amount of energy at the moment. But all estimates show it's still a very small fraction of the problem. It feels like we spend a disproportionate amount of time talking about bitcoins carbon footprint for its size.

How can it be interpreted as misinformation if the information is pretty solidly based? Everyone is looking for low hanging fruit in the race to slow down the climate disaster and it’s an easy target.

I’m glad online currencies exist as a technology but I’m not glad an energy intensive one is currently #1 when at the same time the entire tech is taken over by investors/speculators instead of users.

And if calculations about Bitcoin’s footprint are true it uses up as much energy as Argentina. An entire country. I don’t think that for the use Bitcoin gets in the developed world it justifies energy uses at that level. It’s far from a small little thing to not care about.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#302

Post by thrower123 »

This makes a good deal of sense for plants that have considerable ramp up costs during times of off-peak demand.

I worked at a biomass plant once where it took hours to go from cold to get the boiler fired and get steam pressure up. They cut back production when power prices were low or negative, but they had to run at a minimum capacity all the time because they couldn't just stop and start on a dime.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#303

Post by wolfretcrap »

SwimSwimHungry wrote: post #185
jude- wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, let me Google that for you. First, let's assume for a moment that this February 2021 CNBC source [1] is correct in that Bitcoin mining produces 36.94 megatons of CO2 per year. The original source the CNBC article cited can be found here: [3] (which currently pegs Bitcoin at 47.62 megatons/year). According to the EPA, the US economy alone produced 6,558 megatons of CO2 [2] in 2019 (i.e. under pre-COVID emissions…

My response to you is quite simple. Unlike virtually every other technology that's been created (like computers, cars, smartphones, etc), Bitcoin simply exists in a form where the primary purpose is to waste energy, and the system inherently incentivizes it. Also, the issue of bad building insulation does not in any manner invalidate my concern with the growing problem of Bitcoin now and in the future . Bad building…

Bitcoin does something very important which creating something that people trust without someone in background diluting value of your holdings. If that takes a lot to achieve in terms of energy well it speaks volumes about the society we live in

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#304

Post by CTDOCodebases »

imtringued wrote: post #279
caf wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the criticism is exactly wrong, but it's more like Bitcoin mining is the reductio ad absurdum exposing the waste of resources that goes into gold mining (yes, there's some industrial uses, but that is a rounding error compared to the quantities that are dug up, purified, cast into bars, shipped around the world and buried back underground in vaults).

Jewelry is a surprisingly big chunk of global gold demand. Yes it is ultimately meaningless other than to impress other humans, however this meaningless activity is part of human nature. We derive joy from it. Meanwhile Bitcoin is just a means to an end, getting rich quick. The fun doesn't happen because we have Bitcoin, but rather because we get rid of them for an unreasonable price.

It could be argued that people are flocking to Bitcoin not to increase wealth but to preserve it over a long period of time.

I don’t know where you live in the world but where I live wages haven’t risen in line with the cost of food and shelter.

Leaving money in the bank is like working to buy a block of ice only to watch it melt away. To argue that any store of value isn’t speculative to some degree is naive.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#305

Post by wolfretcrap »

SwimSwimHungry wrote: post #212
jude- wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin simply exists in a form where the primary purpose is to waste energy, That's just your moral judgement. The people who use and make a living off of Bitcoin certainly don't see it as a waste. > In order for the network to remain secure, it must burn copious amounts of energy. First, this does not preclude PoW from existing in a world powered 100% renewable energy. Second, I've already outlined a way to econo…

Look, I'll just say right here I do believe your heart is in the right place and you want there to be an alternative to the government run and controlled fiat. That said, gold technically exists already to meet this in my humble opinion as a proper hedge. Also, to your point about greenifying Bitcoin, I just believe the assumption that bitcoin will just move over 100% to green energy sources is naive at best, and con…

>That said, gold technically exists already to meet this in my humble opinion as a proper hedge.

Moving gold from one country to another country on your is difficult.

Storing gold properly without getting robbed is difficult.

Try moving $5million dollar worth gold and you'll realize the advantage which bitcoin brings.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#306

Post by Avamander »

paulgb wrote: post #295
px43 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mining difficulty tends to be a lagging indicator of price, not the other way around. I doubt that a price increase in power would have much affect on the price of the currency itself. We 100% need massive carbon taxes right now. It's really telling how the energy industry is trying to push blame to consumers, especially cryptocurrency miners, in order to distract from the discussion of real carbon taxes to force pol…

Would you support a carbon import tariff for PoW cryptocurrencies mined outside of countries that implement a carbon tax? Because otherwise I can just imagine mining moving to countries without one, as is already happening with regards to other climate-based restrictions.

They can move, but that undermines confidence of the blockchain because then it's under the influence of fewer governments. Which makes me think that quite a few wont.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#307

Post by bob1029 »

Animats wrote: post #121

Why not locate in Texas where oil wells are flaring off natural gas because they have no way to deliver it, but can still deliver the oil?

Some of us in Texas have already been cooking up some really fantastical energy market schemes involving crypto mining...

I've been thinking about putting together trailers that contain a 2MWe gas turbine genset, switch gear, ups and crypto mining system. These could be towed out to arbitrary locations and used to burn surplus gas supply. Remember, CO2 is much better than CH4 when dealing with greenhouse gasses. Might as well make some extra $$$ while we are converting it...

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#308

Post by hnbad »

bawolff wrote: post #206
SwimSwimHungry wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem with this sentiment. Bitcoin isn't replacing anything. Not pre-existing fiat currency, not banks, nothing. Bitcoin only adds to the problem at an alarming rate. Bitcoin is certainly not a scapegoat. It's a massive problem and, largely, a symptom of human greed that must be put in check.

What a weird metric. The international space station isn't replacing anything, i still think its valuable.

I can't tell you how many people I've seen defending the energy use of cryptocurrencies by saying in essence "yes, but it's nothing in comparison to the energy we waste on the banking sector so it'll actually become more efficient as it replaces that".

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#310

Post by [deleted] »

legohead wrote: post #51
xvilka wrote: post #5

A simple move that would ban selling fossil power plants for cryptocurrencies mining purpose BUT allowing to do so for the carbon-neutral energy would be a win-win for both sides and will help the transition from carbon-heavy energy.

Simpler: ban banks and credit card companies from dealing with anything related to cryptocurrency

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