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Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

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Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#51

Post by stefandesu »

sneak wrote: post #19

Reminder: unlike the docker command line tool, and the dockerd server container management tool, the Docker Desktop products are a) not free software, b) not even source available, and c) send a lot of sensitive data about your system back to Docker Inc without consent. I didn’t realize this for a while myself, as the docker CLI tools are all free software. The “Desktop” variants are not, and embed spyware.

> send a lot of sensitive data about your system back to Docker Inc without consent

Do you have any more information about this? I tried to google it but couldn't find anything. Not that I doubt that this is happening...

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#52

Post by hk1337 »

est31 wrote: post #14
Laremere wrote: post #12

I wonder if the Apple Silicon decision is going to have a large impact on what CPUs are used in the datacenter? I (and I suspect many others) would just default to x86_64, because that's what I develop on and compile to. I suspect many developers on Apple computers will start to look at the differences and choose whatever meets their requirements while minimizing costs. Should this trend continue, this could even hav…

That's what Linus Torvalds said too: ARM won't have a chance in the datacenter until it gets onto desktop computers of developers first. https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=183440&curpost... That moment is now here. Sure, it's only a subset of the market, but Mac devices are a significant percentage of developer computers (28%), way higher than in the general population (17%). https://insights.stackoverflow…

That seems true, AWS already had graviton processors but it’s availability seemed to get quite a boost after Apple Silicon.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#53

Post by em500 »

pjmlp wrote: post #23
est31 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what Linus Torvalds said too: ARM won't have a chance in the datacenter until it gets onto desktop computers of developers first. https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=183440&curpost... That moment is now here. Sure, it's only a subset of the market, but Mac devices are a significant percentage of developer computers (28%), way higher than in the general population (17%). https://insights.stackoverflow…

I did not have a 88000, SPARC, PA-RISC, RS/6000 desktop to develop on UNIX. Likewise, with the return of timesharing, anyone can log into their assigned server slot and work just like I was doing 30 years ago.

> I did not have a 88000, SPARC, PA-RISC, RS/6000 desktop to develop on UNIX.

That may have contributed to their demise.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#54

Post by coldtea »

pjmlp wrote: post #43
coldtea wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point being that Apple adoption of ARM is irrelevant for servers, Apple products aren't even available in most countries below tier 2 in an amount that developers would care. (a) It's not those countries that drive trends (if they were we wouldn't have heavy frameworks and a 10MB SPA bloat as the norm in web development), (b) ARM was already trending for use in servers (heck, even supercomputers), (c) and Apple'…

Lucky you to work for such wealthy organisations. I happen to care for fellow developers, and outside our Fortune 500 customers orgs, I haven't seen anyone being so lucky, and even then, Apple hardware tends to stay at MBA levels, unless they are doing iOS development. I have seen devs teams where iMacs are timeshared across teams.

>Lucky you to work for such wealthy organisations.

Are we talking about enterprises here, with say, millions in revenue and a few millions in profit, or small shops that can't afford webservers and maybe use some shared hosting?

>I happen to care for fellow developers, and outside our Fortune 500 customers orgs, I haven't seen anyone being so lucky

Well, outside of the virtue signalling (and/or implying that I don't care for fellow developers), this is neither here, nor there.

It's not developing world SMEs that set industry trends, or have historically done so.

And we were talking about whether there will be a trend towards ARM in datacenters (helped because of the fact devs will now get more familiar with ARM, with M1 and similar ARM moves from MS).

It's not about whether Macs (or ARM) will be the architecture of choice for cash strapped companies in Freedonia.

(Plus, IT demand and ability to work / compete across the world, makes devs an exception related to their countries average wages. A local dev wage might be 1/2 or 1/5th of what a dev gets in Silicon Valley, but it's not 1/10 or 1/20 - as their national average across professions can often be. And such salaries still have them afford nice tools, Macs or high end PCs or similar).

(Also, Fortune 500? Never worked in one such company, and the ones I did are more like Fortune 1,000,000 but still Macs are extremely popular with devs).

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#56

Post by vetinari »

kmonsen wrote: post #49
pjmlp wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucky you to work for such wealthy organisations. I happen to care for fellow developers, and outside our Fortune 500 customers orgs, I haven't seen anyone being so lucky, and even then, Apple hardware tends to stay at MBA levels, unless they are doing iOS development. I have seen devs teams where iMacs are timeshared across teams.

Mac mini is $700, pretty sure most companies can use this as a dev computer.

Mac mini might be $700/€800, but 1) for an inadequate configuration, you need €1260 for something usable and 2) the cost of integrating the first Mac into Windows-optimized infrastructure is way above that. If you want things like Kerberos SSO (i.e. Active Directory), you need Apple-blessed MDM system to provision it. That one isn't coming in the price of the Mac mini.

So most companies, if they have a mac, it is one on the side, so they can avoid 2).

(How do I know? I'm the only guy using mac in our org).

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#57

Post by pjmlp »

doctor_eval wrote: post #44
pjmlp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not have a 88000, SPARC, PA-RISC, RS/6000 desktop to develop on UNIX. Likewise, with the return of timesharing, anyone can log into their assigned server slot and work just like I was doing 30 years ago.

Did you work on 88K with DG/UX? I loved that OS. All my 88K work was done on a dumb Wyse 60 terminal logged into one, and I’d busily UUCP my files between the various machines depending on which ones I was working on. But things are a bit different now, it’s much more convenient to work on a laptop, so most people do that. Maybe the pendulum will swing the other way and we’ll start timesharing again, with laptops as…

It was the UNIX used at the university compute center when I arrived there, and what we got to use the first couple of years, alongside Solaris on our own department.

We used IBM X Windows terminals, and green phosphor text ones to connect to them.

By the time I graduated, they had been replaced by Red-Hat Linux.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#58

Post by pjmlp »

em500 wrote: post #53
pjmlp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not have a 88000, SPARC, PA-RISC, RS/6000 desktop to develop on UNIX. Likewise, with the return of timesharing, anyone can log into their assigned server slot and work just like I was doing 30 years ago.

> I did not have a 88000, SPARC, PA-RISC, RS/6000 desktop to develop on UNIX. That may have contributed to their demise.

Free beer UNIX in the form of Linux did it.

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#59

Post by hu3 »

stefandesu wrote: post #51
sneak wrote: post #19

Reminder: unlike the docker command line tool, and the dockerd server container management tool, the Docker Desktop products are a) not free software, b) not even source available, and c) send a lot of sensitive data about your system back to Docker Inc without consent. I didn’t realize this for a while myself, as the docker CLI tools are all free software. The “Desktop” variants are not, and embed spyware.

> send a lot of sensitive data about your system back to Docker Inc without consent Do you have any more information about this? I tried to google it but couldn't find anything. Not that I doubt that this is happening...

I tried googling "Docker Desktop Telemetry" but now I'm confused.

First link is https://docs.docker.com/ee/telemetry/

Clicking it it redirects me to https://docs.mirantis.com/containers/v3.0/dockeree-products/...

Re: Docker Desktop for Mac (Apple Silicon)

#60

Post by pjmlp »

coldtea wrote: post #54
pjmlp wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucky you to work for such wealthy organisations. I happen to care for fellow developers, and outside our Fortune 500 customers orgs, I haven't seen anyone being so lucky, and even then, Apple hardware tends to stay at MBA levels, unless they are doing iOS development. I have seen devs teams where iMacs are timeshared across teams.

> Lucky you to work for such wealthy organisations. Are we talking about enterprises here, with say, millions in revenue and a few millions in profit, or small shops that can't afford webservers and maybe use some shared hosting? > I happen to care for fellow developers, and outside our Fortune 500 customers orgs, I haven't seen anyone being so lucky Well, outside of the virtue signalling (and/or implying that I don'…

OP was the one asserting how M1 is relevant for the data center.

As for the rest I won't bother to reply.

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