Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Java Is Underhyped

jackson.sh

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 808 posts

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#91

Post by fomine3 »

aprinsen wrote: post #31

I didn't care for Java when I learned with it in school, found it verbose. Working with it as a dev, my opinion improved. A lot of the new FP inspired APIs make logic much terser, and the OOP stuff can make implementing certain architectural patterns very clean. The other great thing about Java is that nearly every conceivable question has been answered, as far as day to day development. Not so for newer languages. M…

Stream API allows you to write fluent codes until you met checked exceptions. I wish they had solved this.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#92

Post by gilfoyle »

Java language gets its hate from its historical lack of focus on developer happiness. Beyond the language, the crufty experience with Java Bean, Java EE, WebSphere era all contributed to this.

Thankfully, Java ecosystem has learnt from other languages and frameworks and with Java 8 onwards has addressed some of major pain points For e.g. lambda, streams, vars, text blocks, records etc,

On the other hand, Shopify and Dropbox that used Ruby and Python heavily had to invest in type checking to bring back some sanity and this is evidence that beyond a size of code base, static type checking is worth it.

Considering these, I find Java to be a very good option to build stable enterprise applications compared to Ruby or Python.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#93

Post by _y5hn »

tirrex wrote: post #80
zerotolerance wrote: post #72

Speaking as a near 20 year Java programmer, Java is criminally bloated at every level. The ecosystem has been covering for its shortcomings since y2k. That ecosystem is so thick and full of abstraction that no two devs from different framework backgrounds would recognize the others code as Java. And the abstraction... it is a language for people who are more interested is the abstractions than actually getting things…

I agree with you. Actually, Java has great tooling, JVM is very nice, it has great potential for high performance code generation. It has everything for debugging. But at the end of the day, language is driving people to write bloated software. I just wonder, how come e.g Linux kernel code 100 times more readable than any project in Java? More importantly, how did we come to this point that we accept bloated/unreadab…

Java won by its portable deployment model, stack traces, GC, libraries and security sandbox safety. In over two decades, very few other platforms have come close to its promises. C# is perhaps much better, but has stronger proprietary ties and vendor lock-in.

Java became overcomplicated by frameworks and design patterns, so has always felt bloated and slow. But has worked best for business logic. Though is maybe behind COBOL thus far, and tends to hide/obscure logic. No two java designs looks the same, scales well or converge to clear consensus. The language did lower the bar for what cheap programmers could accomplish faster though.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#94

Post by _y5hn »

LaserToy wrote: post #88
baby wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always refused to work with C++/Java, and I managed to get a job with Rust at FAANG. If I can do it, you can do it :P

Why would any reasonable person limit their choices based on a tool? Rust or Blast - whatever I really don’t care what language I’m using if it it doing the job. I use Java, Java Script, Go, Python, Scala when appropriate.

Because it is most likely not your choice.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#96

Post by eitland »

mjevans wrote: post #55
theamk wrote: post #7

There are a few reasons to avoid Java today. - The programs are very verbose for the functionality they provide. There are countless lines of getters, setters, and trivial constructors. While IDE helps to write them, it makes reading existing programs slow and frustrating. Lombok helps, but very few programs use it. - If you do want to use Java ecosystem, there is Scala. It also has strong type system, nice IDE suppo…

Another reason to avoid: Oracle owns Java. This automatically puts Java on my list of tools I'd prefer to avoid for new serious projects. (Legacy projects; if it's working and it isn't an issue yet, maintenance.)

Use OpenJDK!

Never touch anything from Oracle.

Then you will be fine.

Oracle is the company that wants you to buy a license for your MariaDB(!) instance running on a small AWS instance! Yep, that happened.

Source: have worked with Java for years, three of those around Oracle products.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#97

Post by eitland »

king_magic wrote: post #9

The sheer verbosity of Java is just unbearable when you're used to Python/Go/Swift/etc. No, Java is just about as hyped as it needs to be. Which is to say, it's more or less fine. Not great, not terrible. Middle of the road at best.

Or you could say nobody who has ever had a working IDE setup could ever go back to Python.

Saying this as someone who Java after Python and other languages.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#98

Post by tmerr »

Jaxkr wrote: post #73
dcchambers wrote: post #35

I do think Java has a bad rep as a "dry, corporate, enterprise" language, but I think there is an ecosystem around Java that is pretty awesome and you can build incredible applications with Java if you want to. Java has a branding problem. Java (and Oracle) missed the wave of the last 15 years when tech became "cool." If you were new to tech/programming and wanted to pick up a language, which of these three would you…

I actually laughed out loud at the Java.com homepage. I was so surprised, I expected a sleek, modern homepage but instead I got a portal to 2010.

You weren't kidding. The page has barely been tweaked since 2008 https://web.archive.org/web/20080701171554/http://java.com/e...

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#99

Post by [deleted] »

cosmotic wrote: post #63
theamk wrote: post #7

There are a few reasons to avoid Java today. - The programs are very verbose for the functionality they provide. There are countless lines of getters, setters, and trivial constructors. While IDE helps to write them, it makes reading existing programs slow and frustrating. Lombok helps, but very few programs use it. - If you do want to use Java ecosystem, there is Scala. It also has strong type system, nice IDE suppo…

As a Java developer: - I have no trouble reading java and have a hard time reading the 'less verbose' languages. There's way too much implied meaning and information only gleamed through tooling or backtracing, like determining the type of a variable that is declared with var - IDE support for Scala is half as good as Java and I suspect a good reason is the language. The auotcomplete in intelliJ is almost as bad as i…

[deleted]

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#100

Post by erik_seaberg »

fomine3 wrote: post #91
aprinsen wrote: post #31

I didn't care for Java when I learned with it in school, found it verbose. Working with it as a dev, my opinion improved. A lot of the new FP inspired APIs make logic much terser, and the OOP stuff can make implementing certain architectural patterns very clean. The other great thing about Java is that nearly every conceivable question has been answered, as far as day to day development. Not so for newer languages. M…

Stream API allows you to write fluent codes until you met checked exceptions. I wish they had solved this.

Java generics just aren't powerful enough to express that a higher order function's exceptions depend on its args, so pretty much everyone has given up on specific checked exceptions.
Post reply on HN