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Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

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Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#41

Post by stevenicr »

crocodiletears wrote: post #6

Does Matrix have decent mod features yet? I want to take people off Discord, but user-friendly role creation/assignment, moderation tools, and granular permissions are a must before that'll be possible.

I agree mod tools with matrix/synapse/element need major expansion, it's my major thing with it.

BUT I was able to create a couple moderators level 50 for several rooms and admins level 100 for several - with a click tap once I got the basic syanapse/element running on a vps. So some moderation is working out of the box mostly okay.

When I read about the mod-bot that creates a mod room where you can pop in there and tell the bot to 'Do X to user Y in room Z' - well when I read it the third time I started to get how great that is - but I have not gotten to install that part yet - I got stuck on the sticker pack addon not working..

cuz my 2021 install of debian 9 on Digital Ocean had an issue with ssl or some crap - I've got about 20 hours into trying to fix and basically given up (I did find a python support thread that offered a (temp?-) fix by rolling back the TLS version - but pass) - probably going to do a new install on a newer box/debian with latest python and try again. Which probably means a diff domain name and all that - and then I don't think there is a way to port my usernames/email addy of users to the newer install.. so I'm stuck.

There's at least one more addon package for moderating that I have not gotten to that adds like a backened admin page kind of thing I think.

I've made some suggestions for moderation enhancements in the element and synapse chat rooms - but what is getting prioritized by the core team has other things on the road map last I checked.

I'll likely make some blog posts about my suggestions I guess to keep a running list of moderation addons / needs. Someone pointed me to some vote up page for feature requests, maybe it was on github? but I don't do that system yet. My plan was going to be to offer the makers of the admin-page addons some cash to add some features - or find someone via toptal / upwork to write some code and submit to the team for code review maybe.

I think we'll see more moderation tooling sooner than later, I certainly need some more options in that area.

Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#42

Post by encryptluks2 »

fastball wrote: post #38
encryptluks2 wrote: post #37

I still see absolutely no benefit in using Matrix compared to other open source options. The only thing they have going for them is they sure spend a lot of money on marketing and PR.

What are the other open source options with Matrix's feature-set?

IRC, XMPP, email, etc. Please also see:

https://gitlab.com/libremonde-org/papers/research/privacy-ma...

Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#43

Post by tabbott »

vlmutolo wrote: post #30
tabbott wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I hadn't appreciated that Matrix was switching from fully open source to an open core model.

I think that's a mischaracterization of what's happening. Matrix the protocol is fully open source. Element the matrix client is fully open source. Synapse the matrix server is fully open source. Dendrite, the next generation matrix server, is fully open source. All of these are developed by the New Vector team. The only thing here that isn't open source is an external bridge to microsoft teams, a platform that itsel…

Yeah, "Open core" doesn't have a great definition. Certainly I agree this is a pretty contained feature, and I shouldn't have written "switching ... to an open core model" given the evidence in this thread.

But "Element Matrix Services" (aka New Vector) launching and marketing a product/feature that is not open source is AFAIK something new, and it'd be very surprising if this is the last such feature they announce.

(Before today, they were one of the very few examples I knew of a VC-funded open source company where their product remained entirely open source.)

Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#45

Post by blendergeek »

tabbott wrote: post #43
vlmutolo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a mischaracterization of what's happening. Matrix the protocol is fully open source. Element the matrix client is fully open source. Synapse the matrix server is fully open source. Dendrite, the next generation matrix server, is fully open source. All of these are developed by the New Vector team. The only thing here that isn't open source is an external bridge to microsoft teams, a platform that itsel…

Yeah, "Open core" doesn't have a great definition. Certainly I agree this is a pretty contained feature, and I shouldn't have written "switching ... to an open core model" given the evidence in this thread. But "Element Matrix Services" (aka New Vector) launching and marketing a product/feature that is not open source is AFAIK something new, and it'd be very surprising if this is the last such feature they announce.…

This is definitely an "open core" business model and you were right to call it what it is. While right now, the "core" is still fairly large and the proprietary addons are fairly small, it is not hard to see New Vector making more features proprietary additions.

Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#46

Post by blendergeek »

baby wrote: post #32
ssivark wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not open source this bridge too, like everything else in the Matrix ecosystem?

What good would that do?

It would remind the community that Freedom(R) is very important. I think the least they could do is release it under the AGPLv3. That license is accepted by the Free Software community while being universally rejected by business as toxic and dangerous. No business will pick up the bridge and use it, while Free Software people can still use it for their own purposes (whatever those might be).

Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#47

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #42
fastball wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the other open source options with Matrix's feature-set?

IRC, XMPP, email, etc. Please also see: https://gitlab.com/libremonde-org/papers/research/privacy-ma...

IRC is great, but it most certainly is not at feature parity. XMPP works iff everyone has the right set of extensions, which can work but often doesn't. Email doesn't even solve the same problem (real-time multiuser chat).

Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#48

Post by thrower123 »

Jtsummers wrote: post #31
ashton314 wrote: post #27

Recently had to start using MS Teams at work. What a terrible UX: truncated message widths, even for code. No syntax highlighting, markdown-ish syntax only works when you type it in their little editor—when you paste it in it doesn't format, isn't smart enough to auto-start a new message when I start typing, hides bottom of message—even when there's only one line left, etc. Just a bunch of little stupid things that a…

The markdown formatting doesn't even work consistently. Some days things show up bold, some days they don't, some days I get inline code, some days I don't. It's very random and seems to be based on my typing speed at the time. That is, type ` and then wait a moment before typing the next bit and it works more reliably, but if I type like normal (around 100 wpm) it rarely registers properly.

The markdown formatting renders differently in the desktop client depending on whether you are in the main application window or a popped-out chat window...

Which are both different than the formatting that the browser version of Teams shows.

Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#49

Post by unicornporn »

felipelemos wrote: post #40
ashton314 wrote: post #27

Recently had to start using MS Teams at work. What a terrible UX: truncated message widths, even for code. No syntax highlighting, markdown-ish syntax only works when you type it in their little editor—when you paste it in it doesn't format, isn't smart enough to auto-start a new message when I start typing, hides bottom of message—even when there's only one line left, etc. Just a bunch of little stupid things that a…

And to add to the list: there is no way to reply to a message, although they have this implemented in the mobile client for ages.

This. Seems they will never fix it.

Re: Element Matrix Services Launches Bridging for Microsoft Teams

#50

Post by MattJ100 »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #47
encryptluks2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRC, XMPP, email, etc. Please also see: https://gitlab.com/libremonde-org/papers/research/privacy-ma...

IRC is great, but it most certainly is not at feature parity. XMPP works iff everyone has the right set of extensions, which can work but often doesn't. Email doesn't even solve the same problem (real-time multiuser chat).

I think "works iff" is slightly inaccurate here, and "different sets of extensions" thing is overblown (not by you personally, but in general discussions like these). The big problem is actually the opposite: that XMPP continues to work when both parties support different levels of the protocol.

Many modern XMPP clients are comparable in features to Matrix clients, but many people still reach for e.g. Pidgin and Adium, despite those not seeing active XMPP development for many years (that is hopefully changing, at least for Pidgin). Despite the evolution of the protocol, these clients are perfectly able to function, just without the modern stuff people expect.

Discovering the right XMPP software (and that it exists) is the hard part for users, and that's part of what we're trying to solve with the Snikket project.

All decentralized protocols face the difficulty of evolution over time. Email has outlived many attempts to evolve it (but maybe there is still hope with initiatives like JMAP). I'd say XMPP is doing a decent job, and is still evolving. Matrix has yet to really face this issue as it's still relatively young.

IRC... I think the majority of its remaining users consider its lack of evolution a feature :)

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