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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#411

Post by wildermuthn »

maroonblazer wrote: post #178
snakedoctor wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be argumentative. But yes, I did attend college. Send me a email, and I'll send you an email from my college email address (Hasn't been deactivited yet). I can send you my college transcript if that helps.. Well, I did get hired by IBM as a programmer so... I've contributed to a GNU open source project.. So I feel that I am qualifed for a entry level developer/SecEng/Security Analyst role. I went above my boss…

When responding to a comment that asserts your writing is not strong you'd want to read, re-read, and re-re-read your reply to ensure it is well written. You seem to have not done that, which lends credence to the parent's comment. My take is you seem to have an inflated sense of your abilities. I've interviewed people who share this trait and it's a turn off unless they have a portfolio of work to back it up. Perhap…

Good point, but snakedoctor did set this in motion by asking for candid feedback. Ostensibly, he wants to receive and integrate feedback. Seems like the sort of thing a smart kid would aim for. Part of me feels like in a decade people will reference this thread in the same way we reference the shellacking of Dropbox back in the day. It takes a cosmic-sized ego to ask HN to give you advice about why no company will accept that your cosmic-sized ego is justified. But what if the kid is right in his self-evaluation, but has enough self-awareness to critically question his self-evaluation and ask others to do the same? That’s kind of a powerful combination.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#413

Post by candybar »

There are a lot of great comments here about what to do but wanted to add something a little different. Most of the advice here about what you should be doing is reasonable, but one critical thing that's missing is that most people that do the right, pro-social things, don't do it just to get what they want. When it comes to highly important decisions, sure, people strategize and ensure that the consequences are personally beneficial but for the most part, people act properly in social situations because they are socialized to instinctively care about other people's needs. People are programmed (through some combination of nature and nurture of course) to take into account the needs of others that they spend time with, whether bosses, coworkers, friends or family.

It appears to me that you're missing or perhaps blocked out some of this conditioning. The reason why people are throwing out terms like "sociopath" or "autism" here is that you do not seem to have any instinctive regard for others or even your future self in any of your stories - either you don't know how your actions would affect others or you don't care. I know a lot of people think being relieved of having to care about others makes it easy to become successful because they think they can then take advantage of others without any qualms, but this ignores motivational aspects. For most people, naked self-interest isn't motivating enough to get people to do the right things even for themselves. People that aren't motivated by something that's bigger than themselves - whatever the causes may be - usually find it difficult to put off instant self-gratification and control their emotions enough to do what it takes to become successful. To be motivated enough to overcome your habits, you may have to learn to care about other beings beyond your immediate self. This will also make it easier to instinctively do the right thing - you don't have to pretend to care, when you actually do.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#414

Post by chillfox »

Talanes wrote: post #397
srinivgp wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear people say this so much and it's so incredibly not true for me but I dunno if I'm different, they're all full of it, or both.

Right? My conversation problems all stem from my own dislike of talking about myself.

Even more reason to let the other person talk about themself if they enjoy it.

If both of you dislike talking about yourselves then try to explain something about a subject that you find interesting.

Edit: I want to add that not liking something does not mean you can't be good at it.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#415

Post by bmdavi3 »

srinivgp wrote: post #360
bmdavi3 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The secret to being a good conversationalist is to have the other person do most of the talking, and everyone's favorite thing to talk about is themselves. Being, and therefore appearing, genuinely interested in what the other person is saying about themselves creates the best feelings in the world for the other person, and you won't run out of things to talk about. "You just got a new dog? Cool!" Then you can ask an…

I hear people say this so much and it's so incredibly not true for me but I dunno if I'm different, they're all full of it, or both.

Serious question.

Which parts of it aren't true for you?

Have you found that making extra effort to be interested in the other person's ideas / topics / interests, listening carefully, etc. isn't well received?

Or is "nobody wants to hear what you have to say" not true, because you do care what other people have to say, for example? (Obviously that's great if so)

Or something else?

I ask because I started making that kind of effort a couple years ago, slowly but surely, getting better as I went. I didn't tell anybody, but after about a year one friend was like, "you know, you're interested in what we do and you really care. Nobody else does that." And another friend chimed in and agreed. (And I really do care! Sure it's intentional, but it's like eating healthy food, and then you grow to like it)

They were being serious. So if you believe me when I'm telling you this, it has been true for me and those friends.

I also think it's true that most people are oblivious to the extra mental effort that goes into approaching conversations this way, and just leave thinking "finally, someone who gives my ideas the credit and attention they are due. Now if I could just get everyone else to act that way"

And that's fine with me

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#416

Post by lkm93 »

livinginfear wrote: post #317

Your post provides a recruiter any number of reasons not to hire you. In addition to providing a personal history of failure and excuses, you're airing the dirty laundry of the companies you did work for. Your misgivings with these may or may not be legitimate, however what recruiter wants their name attached to you the next time you feel like airing your grievances with the last company to lay you off? > "I tried co…

The time and attention of these professionals is valuable.

LOL. Gotta keep those bits flowing so idiots can keep jacking off and clicking on ads.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#417

Post by javajosh »

wildermuthn wrote: post #390
javajosh wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you kinda seem like you might struggle just doing exactly what you're asked to do. Bringing up how frequently you quit things for various reasons or finding issues and bringing them up with your superiors' superiors Yes, this is what stood out for me. OP sounds malcontented, and habitually dissatisfied with his role, and makes antisocial decisions (like spoofing numbers - which is not just dishonest but shows contem…

Fascinating take on NPD. But it’s my understanding that narcissism is actually the hardest disorder to cure, as its very nature is to be in denial that anything needs to change — it’s the rest of the world that needs to change.

>hardest disorder to cure

...if they don't want to change. That is a true statement. But, if they do want to change, it's relatively straight-forward.

BTW the thing you can control is not your actions, or even your reactions, but rather your attention. The best thing a narcissist can do is learn to see themselves in others. Modulo the risk of projection (that is, ascribing too much commonality to the other), it's a nice judo move to turn a dark quality into a light one.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#418

Post by batch12 »

fnbr wrote: post #395
ma2rten wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily agree regarding FAANG. Once someone gets an interview it doesn't matter much what their previous work experience is.

I agree. If OP can consistently get interviews at FAANGs, then that’s all that’s needed for the job.

It sounds to me like it is either a knowledge gap of which they may be unaware, or a personality issue. When hiring in the past, I looked for thoughtful, but honest answers-- even if the answer was "I don't know." Someone talking around the question or bullshitting me resulted in a no. Also, interviewers may be sensing some quality which hint that the interviewee would make existing employees' jobs harder. Dunno if this is happening, but things like talking bad about previous jobs, management, etc can turn folks off. Also, if one implies many previous jobs were problems the interviewer may assume that the employee was the issue instead.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#419

Post by sangnoir »

ipiz0618 wrote: post #341
kryogen1c wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's impossible to tell if OP's on the spectrum. I used to think I could do that until I got close with a Clinical Psychologist. Sometimes it can't be confirmed even after a few in-person sessions with professionals, so it's certainly dangerous to "guess" it from a few internet comments.

I think parent was saying that author is violating social norms - either because they are oblivious to them (like it is to some people on the spectrum) or they are aware of the norms, but do not care for them (which would be sociopathic)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#420

Post by 7sidedmarble »

ma2rten wrote: post #388
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #211

As a hiring manager, the things that stand out to me in your post: - You said you quit a job at EA, quit a job at IBM, dropped out of college your freshman year. You may have valid reasons for leaving each of these, but you have to see this from the manager's perspective: You had 3 different great opportunities that all came to a dead end at the beginning of your career. You need an alternate narrative. - You talk ab…

I don't necessarily agree regarding FAANG. Once someone gets an interview it doesn't matter much what their previous work experience is.

Not only does that make no sense in the context of hiring programmers, it doesn't make sense for hiring anyone. Nailing interviews is about impressing someone first and foremost. It's kind of hard to impress when you don't have prior experience to look to.
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